Hello I'm new to the forum and very excited to be here. Over the last couple years I've been a visitor and I would like to thank all of you who post in the forums for your knowledge and information. I would like to know if the Tinker Falchion would be effective against plate armor and or helmets, bevors or gorgets in regards to armor piercing or blunt force trauma transferrence. I've seen numerous explanations on this site as to why swords are not effective against plate when it comes to the cut or hacking attack because of a lack of concentration of force however does the "flange" or "spike" that adorns this sexy piece of steel negate that? On Tinker's website I read that most of the blades mass was efficiently focused on the spike much like it would be on a warhammer or mace flange, does this mean it would have similar effect on plate as an single handed axe or war hammer spike?
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No sword is designed to cut armour but the point might be useful. Not against the plate itself but the point is needed to penetrate voiders and gaps.

Thanks for your speedy response Dan dumb question though, which point are you referring to I know that the high polar moment of the blade will make it an efficient thruster but I am wondering if you are talking about the point on the spike.

The side point is a little too obtuse of an angle I think, but the top point is quite sharp and would be able to find gaps.

As far as piercing plate, not really. It doesn't have the mass behind it. Possibly a very hard thrust with all your bodyweight behind it could partially pierce the thinnest and weakest section of plate.

The point does look very sharp, but one of the main reasons a warhammer spike is effective against plate is because of the momentum behind it. That's something a falchion doesn't have.

But I thought that the entire function of a falchion was to be have a high moment of inertia and more mass at the tip of the blade so that it hit with greater impact than other swords "axe like percussion" which is why it was effective against mail. Also this sword weight 2lbs 14 oz...but if it weighed say 3lbs+ would it have sufficient mass? I would think that this type of sword at least would have success transferring blunt force trauma especially if it was forged to balance like a axe mounted on a blade instead of a haft or a mace with one flange... with just enough counterbalance to recover.

would it have momentum enough if the user was mounted? I suppose a substantial quantity of math would be involved?

Ryan S. I agree about the math...I also think its a matter of forging and mass distribution of the blade itself. If this blade weighs 2lbss 14oz and if the majority of that is focused on the blade spike then why wouldn't it behave like similarly balanced weapons such as maces and hammers when they were of comparable weight. When Tinker described the weapon he said the majority of the swords weight was focused at the blades spike. I suppose my question should be would a sword shaped like the Tinker Falchion be effective as a blunt trauma anti armor weapon if it was forged to do so, with most of its weight centered on the spike. If the hammer below was made to behave like a sword...why cant a sword be made to behave like a hammer with the blade between the pommel and the spike and point serving as a haft. Keep in mind in a combat situation I would not target the breastplate...but the head and the neck, knees and ect...

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To have the physics of an axe or hammer, your sword would have to be *shaped* like an axe or hammer, which it isn't. Too much of the metal is in the blade between the hilt and the point--in an axe that would just be a little wood, very little weight. Also, that thrusting point seems a little thin to me to be doing much armor-piercing. It would be like trying to hammer a steak knife through a metal plate, it may just fold up. Better to lean towards the shape of a cold chisel, which is made for that kind of job.

If you want it to hit like an axe, use an axe!

Matthew

Ryan's question is well taken. Mounted combat is another animal. Real 'gothic' horseman's maces are absurdly light, and would not do much more than annoy a plate-armoured man if swung by someone on foot. Put him on a horse, striking as he rides by, the thing hits like a bus! :eek: This falchion might be able to do quite a bit of damage with that edge fluke, if used similarly. I have an old 16 gauge helm I use for that sort of destructive testing, and it would be interesting to give the beast a whirl.

I think you're misunderstanding what Tinker said. I've found a page where he says "The point in the cutting edge at the widest part of the blade focuses the blades mass very effectively". When you hit with the spike, all the impact forces are applied over a very small spot. These impact forces are generated by a fraction of the mass of the sword, not the whole mass! But because of the spike the effects are more concentrated.

The only way to actually put more mass behind the impact is to move the center of gravity closer to the impact point, which is exactly what maces, hammer and axes do. Of course, if you have more mass at the impact point, you also have more mass to stop if you miss, so you can't have a weapon that hits like a ton of brick and handles like a feather.

Regards,

Thank you everyone for your input thus far. Vincent you raise interesting case about the center of gravity. Basically if I wanted the sword to have the ability to be effective against a plate armored opponent it would have to be made like a sword shaped mace...with the great majority of the weight focused at the spike on the blade...and the spike would require a more acute angle. Would it be possible for a weapon to be made with these specifications? I understand like Vincent said that it wont handle like a traditional sword would.

If you put that much mass behind the spike it will have to add thickness, which will make it more like a hammer head and less like a cutting edge. Also, you would have to make the whole blade thicker so that the big mass at the end does not flex it too much. So basically you would end up with a warhammer: a weighty spike at the end of a rigid squarish handle. At best you'd be able to add some sort of slicing edge over the handle...

Regards,

Thank you once again for you input gentleman. I was of the mind that this blade would have been somewhat more effective than other swords of the same weight as far as its capabilities as a bludgeon. Specifically I wondered whether or not it would be effective against helms or bevors and gorgets. I've seen videos of swords denting helmets and armour http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avnjDouvuRc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-h0e0NSwYNg and thought that with the concentration at flange or spike on the point of percussion would multiply the force imparted by the blow. Have I been mis-educated by these examples in the videos. What would be the capabilities of a weapon like this African Iwoon Sword against an armored opponent?

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or

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or this one
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or this Egyptian Khopesh i think that if the upper part of the blade was shaped like the Tinker Falchion its possible to be quite effective.

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These blades appear to have vastly different points of balance than their European counterparts... do any of these look like they would be useful against an armored man. Thoughts anyone?