Greetings friends,

A couple of things. First, I'm looking for historical daggers of the 14th Century to purchase. They must be something that can be used and that I can be proud of. Second, a sheath or scabbard for the dagger. I notice there are many people out there that create custom scabbards for swords but the poor dagger is left out there.

How was the dagger attached to the belt in the 14th century? :?: I have noticed in images that the dagger appears to be paired with the belt pouch or purse. In some instances it appears to be attached by a chain. It seems fashionable to wear a plaque belt low on the hips in the 14th century. How was the dagger and/or sword attached to this type of belt? Currently Albion is working on "The Knight" sword for me and Christian Fletcher is designing the scabbard with an integral belt. They have been great. :D

I hope this finds you all well as I am in Iraq attempting to heal from a rocket attack. Not so fun let me tell ya. :( Anyway, I thank everyone in advance. This is a great website and I enjoy reading the forums.

A look through the reviews, collections and manufacturers index should turn up some sources for daggers and scabbards, from production and custom makers. The rest of your questions can be better answered by others here, I think.
You (and all the troops there) have my gratitude and my best wishes in recovering from your injuries, God bless.

I'll assume you're looking for a reproduction dagger rather than an original. There are lots of good choices, and I'm sure folks here will chime in with their own experiences. As for the scabbard--that would have been made in a variety of ways, from simple leather to something like a miniature sword scabbard, with wood core. I just made the latter and found it to be very easy.

Chad Arnow can tell you about daggers and suspensions of this period. In later periods you'd see everything from simple thongs tied around the mouth of the scabbard to metal fittings with rings for more elaborate suspensions.

It's hard to go wrong with Arms & Armor, by the way:

http://www.arms-n-armor.com/dagg058.html

Check out this thread on a Tod's Stuff 14th c. dagger:

http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=4802&highlight=


I prefer 15th and 16th c. forms, but that's just me. :)

I would second the vote for Arms and Armor and Tod's stuff, they are both excellent folks to deal with. Additionally although he is far to modest Justin King makes an OUTSTANDING (I AM going to do that review Justin) dagger as well. As for scabbards, pretty much anyone that does sword scabbards will also do dagger scabbards.

Troy,
Thanks for the post. Best wishes on a speedy recovery. :)

14th century daggers have been discussed a little bit before:

http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=9853
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=10195

There aren't a lot of reproductions out there because there aren't a ton of identified surviving daggers from that era. We know rondel daggers were in use, as were ballock daggers and baselards (baselards seem to have been pretty popular then). The first thread above shows most of the 14th century daggers I've seen in the books I've owned. Here's another dagger from a different thread:

[ Linked Image ]

For repros, there's A&A's rondel dagger. It's based on a late 14th century Italian painting or fresco.

Del Tin has a baselard as well.

Apart from those, much of the rest of the market tends to be later (15th century and on). Custom is an option. I went with Tod's Stuff of Oxford, England to reproduce one of the rondel daggers in the thread above.

[ Linked Image ]

[ Linked Image ]

[ Linked Image ]

[ Linked Image ]

Scabbards are another conundrum. We don't have many surviving 14th century daggers, and even fewer surviving sheaths/scabbards for them (I can't think of many/any I've seen). We can look at period art (like examples I posted in the first thread above), but effigies and brasses don't show construction and don't usually provide help with figuring out how they're suspended. They often seem magically stuck to the knights' right hips. Brasses of civilians show daggers suspended from belts via thongs.

So, thongs/cords can work. I believe some period art makes it look like the dagger and scabbard are thrust through the belt. Late in the 14th century (and more in the 15th), hooks are used for swords to hang them from hip belts; perhaps they were used for daggers too? The somewhat standard blocky belt loop we see sometimes (see below) doesn't seem to appear much in period art.

[ Linked Image ]

As far as scabbard construction, a wood core should be okay as would all leather. That's conjecture, as we don't really have enough surviving examples to judge off of, but those were the standards in the 15th century. I doubt the 14th was totally different.

My thanks to all for your responses and assistance. Also, I appreciate the good wishes for my recovery. Who would have thought that walking to the gym would be hazardous to your health. :lol:

I think I'm going to purchase a Rondel Dagger Kit from Tod's Stuff. That would be a lot of fun to work on. I'm not sure if it's something I can work on here in Iraq or not. On the other hand, I'm not sure if he can ship to Iraq either. I did see the Rondel Dagger on A & A's website. I like it very much as Tod's Stuff has some very nice ones as well. Now I have to decide. I guess attaching the dagger via a thong would seem to be the appropriate and easiest way for me. Any other thoughts and ideas are welcome.

Jean,
That MRL rondel dagger is 15th century or later. While it's impossible to be certain what it's based off of, a very similar-looking surviving example I found is dated after 1400, making it not 14th century, which is what Troy was looking for.

It's not a bad piece, but I think it's later than Troy wants.

:)

In re: Tod's Stuff, take a look at his gallery!

http://www.todsstuff.co.uk/galpics/index.php

Now that is impressive. I wish I had seen more of his work while I still lived in the UK.

Tod does nice work, is a nice guy, and delivers pretty quickly. The rondel dagger (above) I just got from him took twice as long as he quoted, but delivery was still around 6 months after order.

I'm a bit confused. I realize that the rondel has been used in the 15th century as well. So, how do I tell the difference? The MRL rondel that Jean displayed was very nice but what makes it 15th century? By the way, thanks Jean for the links even though the dagger was 15th century. :D

On another note. Plaque belts. Do or do not? They appear to be fashionable for the mid 14th century. Are these period examples in everyone's opinion?

http://www.anshelmarms.com/plaquebelt.html[url]

http://www.revivalclothing.com/index.asp?Page...D=116[url]

Again thank you all. I love this site.

The rondel dagger seems to be the way I'm going to go. I didn't see the effigy thread, Chad. Did I miss it? :\ Does anybody know of others that create some nice plaque belts?

Thank you all.

I forgot all about Raymond's Quiet Press Ltd. I even have them book marked and I ordered some buckles and tips for a viking belt I put together. I do like his work. I want to ensure that I exhaust all searches before I go with a certain plaque belt. I don't want to purchase something then see another one down the road that I like better. Then my girl friend would really kill me. The effigies are a big help when it comes to research. I worry sometimes that the artist may embelish on designs and so forth. Are there other examples from period art? Maybe something that is resting in a museum somewhere?

I notice that Prince Edward's plaque belt has square plaques on the last image Chad posted. This is not the same as the belt that Raymond's Quiet Press lists here http://www.quietpress.com/hip_belts.html[url] HB-6 The Black Princes' Hipbelt. Does anyone know of, or have an image of Prince Edward wearing such a belt? It is a wonderful belt to be certain.[/url]