Greg Coffman wrote, "Staffs would some times have metal caps on them or even small spikes and still be considered staffs. But even with the bare wood end, it still can deliver both crushing blows and strikes. Learn to use the weapon as it's intended and it won't come across as clubbing with big sticks.

I don't know Greg, I feel like I've stepped through the looking glass, you know? I'm really wondering what we're going to do next; discuss how many angels can fit on the head of a pin? Yes, of course staves can have ferrules or a small spike on the end but that still doesn't make them spears or pikes. I didn't say that they couldn't have metal on them! I simply said that a spear or pike is a different thing than a staff.

Is there a functional difference between being dealt a, "...crushing blow or strike" with a staff and getting clubbed with a big stick? Trauma is trauma, concussion is concussion. An attacker may be a martial arts superstar with a beautifully crafted staff or some knuckle dragger with a sapling with the limbs torn off ; if he hits you solidly on the head you're likely a corpse.


Ken Speed

There's the whole "clubbing with big sticks" thing, which is just taking the weapon and swinging it as hard as possible. And then there is the advancement into different grips, striking with both ends, parrying and countering, jabs, disarms, midstrikes, etc. The result, admittedly, is that the other guy still gets hit with a big stick, but generally the person who has more options for getting there while denying the same to the other guy comes out on top.

Greg,

If you read the whole discussion you will see that the definitions of the weapons and their length is constantly changing. I started out saying that I had a tough time believing that a quarter staff could be used as a quarter staff when it was something like 13 to 18 feet long. Then the argument was made that a quarter staff and a pike were in fact the same thing. I argued that they are not because a quarterstaff does not have a spear head because then it would be a pike nor an axe head because then it would be a halberd. You pointed out that a quarterstaff could have metal caps or a small spike on one end which is still neither an axe or spearhead. Now you are talking about a long staff and I frankly don't know if this is in fact the same thing as a quarterstaff or something different. I would note that the staff you seem to be talking about is now 8 or 9 feet long a far cry from the 13 to 18 foot length that was originally mentioned.

You said, "See, I think that there is a difference between the use of a staff, especially as taught by Swetnam, and especially in the case of the longstaff, versus the use of a club." I didn't say that a staff and a club were the same I said that being hit with a staff, like being hit with a baseball bat is being clubbed as opposed to being slashed with a sword or stabbed with a spear.

Yes, I agree a halberd and a staff that are both 8' long will be used in a similar manner, a 8' long staff will be used in a different manner than a 18' long pike.

Ken

I would not characterize Terry Brown's treatment of the quarterstaff in English Martial Arts as "extensive." I'd say it's barely introductory at best. There's a relatively brief chapter of historical background that relies heavily on Silver and a presentation of ten techniques using captioned photographs with no other explanatory text besides the photographs. It's certainly in no way a systematic presentation of a coherent art, merely ten fairly random individual techniques.

I recommend David Lindholm's Fighting with the Quarterstaff for wide-ranging but detailed survey of European staff techniques. I wish had stuck a little closer to his sources; he gives you the historical maneuver adapted to his personal martial preferences. For example, all the photos of Swetnam's moves show folks leaving a foot behind their rear hands even though the text explicitly says to grip right by the butt. In the context of such a great resource, however, this quibble hardly matters.