Calling Goodwin, Erickson, et al.:

Is the "proto-mortuary" hilt shown below (posted to the albums by WG) a 17th c. original? Whether it is or isn't, is the smooth, truncated inside shell a known mortuary variant? I can't quite tell from Mazansky. Symmetrical shells seem to have been (more?) common, but I'm especially interested in this assymetrical hilt.

As for the full wire grip–would a grip of two strands of twisted wire over leather over a carved core, with Turk's Heads at top and bottom, be as plausible as the one shown here for such a simple hilt of this period? I know it'd be fine for the more complex and more highly decorated mortuary hilts of the period. Just wondered if such a grip treatment was confined to the better-quality weapons.

Thanks for any help/advice you can offer!

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Dear Sean,

In his book Arms and Armour of the English Civil Wars, David Blackmore writes that the outer shell of proto-mortuary swords are often larger than the inner shell and goes on to say "The outer shell is almost invariably linked to the pommel by a side knuckle guard, while this feature is sometimes absent from the inner shell." He shows a quite similar sword, although you can't see whether the inner guard is smooth and the pommel is a lot more elaborate. The blades also have the distinct 1.5-2 inch ricasso seen on the blade being discussed. This makes a lot of sense because that's just where you want to parry if you're using the swords according to the instructions of contemporary authors like Silver or Swetnam.

Cheers
Stephen

Sean,

As far as the grip goes....the total wire wrap is plausible. Since alot of rapiers of the 16th c. had this type of
feature.. it could be seen as just a makers / buyers preference carry-over.

Heres anothe example of a muniton grade Mortuary with similat style of wrapping.

Cheers,

Bill

ps I'm thinking that Eljay has a proto-mort with a similar shell guard in his personal collection...I'll keep digging
in my photo files....sure I have something on it somewhere.....I really need to get all this stuff in order......

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Hi Sean,
The smaller inside shell is pretty common on proto-morts, and is frequently undecorated. The grips, even on plain hilts, could have very complex wire wraps. I have an English sword ca. 1630 in my collection that is very simply decorated. The original grip retains about 75% of it's very complex wire wrap along with both turk's heads. While it's not a proto-mort, it does show that simple hilts could have intricate wraps.

Now that I think of it, I may have sent you a photo of this sword awhile back.

--ElJay

Perfect! Just what I wanted to know. Many thanks, everybody! I really, really need that book you cited, Stephen....

The information about the ricasso is a welcome bonus here. The blade I'm going to mount has a ricasso, though not quite as much as it did or quite as much as suggested here. It's a backsword blade, and I had to take a bit of the ricasso in order to extend the tang enough to have a peened construction. By the way, some readers may be interested to know that MRL pommels drill out really easily. :D

Yes, folks, I'm going to try and make a proto-mort hilt from sheet steel. :eek:

I'm hoping to get a peek at some of the Museum of London's Hounslow collection in the next few weeks, but I'm not sure how many, if any, are on display at the museum. I'm sure I'll find some inspiration there, no matter what.