Does anyone know how a mid-late 14th century aketon (to be worn beneath a maille haubergeon) might look like? I'm thinking of the general pattern - would it be simply cut from straight pieces or would it more likely have been taylored after the fashion of the time (with a slim, turned in waist etc)? Would it have been pulled over the head like a kyrtle or would it have had a front lacing or buttoning like the fashionable doublets or cote-hardies of the time? Which thickness would be appropriate, considering that the garment is to be worn with a haubergeon over it?

There seems to be a gap of knowledge about padded armour between the 13th century (like the armour shown in the Maciejowski-bible) and the mid 15th century (like the jacks worn in the wars of the Roses, the burgundian wars etc). I would be glad if someone could help me out.

/Mikael

This thread shows a number of quilted garments: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=8426

Thanks for the link Chad, but I can't find any of the images there showing an aketon worn beneath the maille.

We don't know a lot about 14th-century arming garments. Part of the problem, of course, comes from the fact that armor changed so drasticly during the 14th century. Are you looking for a true Aketon (in the sense of a sleeved, knee-length padded garment worn under a great hauberk) or are you asking for a more fitted doublet such as would be appropriate under the more fitted armors of the later parts of the century? Since you mention being shaped to go under armor amd the early-14th-century Aketon differed but little, if any, from those worn from the end of the 12th century I will start by assuming the latter.

Many of us who do 14th-century impressions have been using the Charles de Blois pourpoint as our model for arming doublets. This isn't strictly accurate since the CdB poupoint is clearly and obviously a civilian garment not meant to be worn under armor (and to those who doubt that, simply look at the size of the sleeve buttons--they would never fit under the lower canons of the vambraces), however it fulfills a similar niche, i.e., holding up chausses is similar to holding up cuisses. The Grand Aissette sleeves of the CdB pourpoint are ideal for supporting cuisses because they hold the body of the garment in one place when you lift your arms, and essential quality if you're to point your cuisses to your doublet.

Many people err in making these pourpoints by putting too much fabric under the armpit. The armpit must be tight so that the vambraces (which are pointed to the sleeves of the doublet) don't tend to slide up or down as you move.

I will attach some pictures here. The first is the only primary source illustration to show an arming doublet--the others are from the CdB pourpoint, however I'm told the pattern diagram is slightly flawed. I hope this helps.

If you have any questions I'll try to answer them.

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From a 14th-C French Ms.--Lancelot

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The CdB pourpoint

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A conjectural layout; I'm told it is flawed in terms of the shapes of some pieces, but it gives an idea.

Thanks, interesting pics!
I Guess I'm looking for a more simple, earlier type of aketon - that is if they were still around in the second half of the 14th century...? My intention is not to wear full armour, but just a maille haubergeon like the one in this picture.

Perhaps the jupon of Charles VI would be a good pattern?

regards
/Mikael

While it's true that the jupon of Charles VI is intended to be worn over armour, would the basic shape/pattern of the garment be appropriate for an aketon to be worn under the maille? At least it's much easier to make than the pourpoint of Charles de Blois.

My intention is to portray a well-to-do yeoman archer, not a man-at-arms. But I guess that the basic padded armour was the same regardless of class?

Hugh-

I'm not aware of the leg harness being pointed to the aketon/gamebson. I've always understood them to be attached to a belt as in the 'King's Mirror' or an arming doublet as in 'How a Man Shall be Armed'. Especially as the problems you mentioned are easily solved by either of these methods.

Mikael-
The short answer to your question is that I don't know and I've looked hard. I bought a pattern online that came highly recommended and was sorely disappointed :P If you have some experience in making sewing patterns then you might try simply examining modern repros like from Revival or Matuls and ad-libbing it. It's not like there was one true pattern after all. I recommend Medieval Tailor's Assistant by Sarah Thurston for getting started on period garb and it has some info on how to make your own patterns, too.

A living history site like Living History Library or FireStryker might help as well.

For other arming doublet/pourpoint type patterns Revival makes a version. Scroll to the bottom of the item description and you'll see drawings of the original artwork that are (part of) the basis for the design. With these pictures and the Charles du Blois garment we have five distinct possible patterns for such a garment.

Hugh-
I got the Charles du Blois and Charles the VI garment mixed-up :-P I reread your post and realized I'd gotten confused. My mistake.

On another note: What is a 'great hauberk'? I was not able to find the term anywhere.

I'm also unsure on your use of 'tube-like' to describe the shape of an aketon. Any garment that extends past the hips has to flare or be slit to allow full movement of the legs. Are you describing a construction like a surcoat?

Thanks guys, I've got some really good suggestions. Now I just have to do a pattern after my measurments

I'm a little concerned that I may have made a bad choice. I've been sorting out an order with Matuls for one of their BAH2 Gambeson's in order to wear underneath a hauberk. I planned to use this setup for a period of around 1415 and anything up to 1455, combining it with plate arms and legs (held up by a pourpoint). I have no intention of using a breastplate at this time (maybe at some point in the future, but I won't be using a full mail hauberk and will seek a pointed aketon for that use), but may add a brigandine though.

Would the Matuls BAH2 be a bad choice for this period, would I be better looking elsewhere ? I don't have the facilities to produce my own fitted aketon/gambeson, so I have to make do with those I can readily purchase.

If I were to wear a gambeson or Jack over the top of my mail (am I correct in thinking this was more a 1450's thing, or have I misread ?), what sort of aketon thickness would I be looking at to go under the mail ?

[quote="Al Muckart"]

Hugh Knight wrote:

Do you have a full manuscript reference for that Lancelot picture so I can find more information on the manuscript?

It is Lancelot du Lac et la Quete du Graal, BNF MS. 343.

Biblioteche Nationale de France has published a facsimile; I don't have a lot of the bibliographic data (although one of my students has a copy so I could get it), but it's a magnificent book. Try do a search on Barnes and Noble in France. I'll attach a picture of the cover of the book.

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