One of the many things I have learned while browsing myArmoury.com is of the existence of this very odd weapon, apparently a late Renaissance era two-handed saber, believed (according to the brief mention here at myArmoury) to be a cross between a saber and a bastard sword. Several examples can be found in the historical weapons galleries on this site, under sabers. Another wierd feature is that they have extensive hand-guards, the like of which I've never seen on a two handed weapon. (I can post links if necessary)

Does anyone know anything about this weapon, or know where I can find out more about it's actual use? I'm working on some new weapons for a friends RPG game and I was thinking of adding this one in, but I need to find out a bit more about it. Doesn't seem to show up in my Oakeshottes records of the medieval sword!

I had so much good luck with the Falx (thanks for that!) I figured I might strike gold again here. Any help would be appreciated.

Jeanry Chandler

Swiss Sabers are one of my all time favorite swords (Albion are you listening????) I currently have
two repros. One from Tinker and one from ARMART. The Tinker is schedualed to go to Erik Stevenson
this Summer and have the plain hilt re-done with a full Swiss basket.

When I get home I will post pics

Hi Jeanry,
These types of swords are actually less of a cross between a bastard sword and a saber, and more of a cross between a bastard sword and a falchion. Not all have complex hand guards: Some are very plain with little ornation, some have elaborate hand protection. From my knowledge (which is limited on this particular sword type, though I' have always liked the design), these were seen the most in the 15th and 16th century in the German and Swiss areas. Somebody please chime in with more accurate dates.

As for use, I know there are some German fight manuals that show it, though none that I'm familiar with. There are other manuals that show the single handed messer, which can easily be adopted to the two handed technique. Codex Wallerstein comes to mind: Even though the messer is single handed, if you look at the plates, you can see how to easily adopt the techniques to a two handed version.

While I haven't really studied the usage of this weapon, I imagine it would be used pretty much like a longsword (minus the back edge). It's design would probably make it a better cutter/chopper than the longsword, but the same design would also make it less effective on the thrust.

You know, Gus, I just assumed those were variants of the same type of sword. In the same way that a type XIIa and an XVIIIb are different types of longswords: different handling characteristics, but still used within the same broad form of techniques.

definately post your pics of these saber, all of them!! These are my favorite swords and what I have found in hte forums is about all I have been able to find picture wise> :!:

Well, I know where you can find the antiques, and I know where you can find a guy who's handled the antiques (part of an old debate, he finally admitted that I was right, and he was shocked to see just how effortlessly they handled). What I **can't,** unfortunately, do, is get you access to the antiques... the Hungarian armory is still locked down just as tight as it was...

I will, however, be in Budapest from the 10th-17th of March, and what I **might** be able to do is to take additional pictures of one of said sabres...

Yeah, I knwo about your to-do list, that's part of why I haven't bugged you lately. That longsword you did for Bob Charron looked and felt pretty good, btw...

Yep. Now if it were only eight inches longer and eight ounces lighter, with a crosspiece that wasn't grossly over=built... THEN stupidface would live up to its reputation...

(for those of you not in the know, my hungarian bastard sabre replica is called StupidFace because it's such a balls-to-the-wall design that the first time anybody sees it, they wind up with a realy stupid look on their face...)

If you saw my article in Spada, it's the one in my hand there. Otherwise, Holzman currently has it, so maybe we can harass him for a photo...

Yep, the smith, who is a god with sabres but whose swords are very iffy (and I've found this almost universally to be the case, that bladesmiths do one or the other well, but not both), misunderstood my terrible Hungarian, and thought I wanted it for stage combat... I ground it down quite a bit manually, but the hilt furniture is at least three times thicker than it ought to be.

Then again, I got it for roughly US$40 at the time, since he'd put so little work in it, so it's not like I can actually complain...