myArmoury members,

I wanted to ask your opinion about a rather mysterious artifact from Prague Castle. It was found in one of the numerous archaeological digs conducted around the castle. The artifact itself is made of wood, with a stitched leather covering, and is shaped such that it looks like it was intended to be worn upon the head. It has been dubbed the "Podevin helmet" since it is alleged that it was worn by Podevin, the servant of St Wenceslas. Research, however, seems to indicate that it was probably created some time between the 11th to 12th century.

As an artifact, the helmet is very unusual; apparently, there is no other comparable artifact anywhere else in Europe. So, my question is, what do you think it's intended purpose was? Is it actually a helmet? Is it a hat? Or do you think it might have been used for some other purpose?

My initial instinct is that it is probably not a helmet. For one thing, it does not look like it would sit upon one's head very well. You'll note that most helmets from this period are fairly rounded and designed so that they will sit reasonably well on one's head, reducing the chance that they will be dislodged in battle. For another thing, to my knowledge, there is no evidence of helmets of this sort in contemporary artwork, which we would probably expect to see if it is indeed a helmet. (For the record however, my personal knowledge of medieval artwork is generally limited to the more western parts of Europe, so I certainly cannot speak on the issue of contemporary Bohemiam military art).

Though I am inclined to think that the Podevin helmet is actually a hat, this belief is not entirely unproblematic. If it is a hat, why did the maker bother to craft it largely out of wood? And why was it covered with leather, rather than another type of material such as linen?

I'm interested to hear your views and arguments on the subject. I have attached a photo of the Podevin helmet below. (For the record, I believe the wood is a modern reconstruction of what was originally found in the grave).

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Any chance it was small bucket? They're often made of wood (though I'm not sure why they'd cover it in leather). Is there some trace of a suspension inside to make folks think it sat on a head?

I have a theory, but it's tested somewhat by your last comment about it being associated with a grave.

Seems to me that the best reason to shape wood in this way is to contain something. Seems also that the best reason to cover that object with leather is to keep moisture out or in. The simplest solution, then, seems to be that this is a bucket or similar container. If found among grave goods, maybe it's a pagan survival, containing something to accompany the deceased into the afterlife--mead? wine? food? Of course, Peter the Stonemason's Beer Bucket doesn't have quite the ring of the traditional attribution.

And why would anyone toss a bucket into grave goods, anyway?

Sean Flynt wrote:

... beer ...

Hmmm, getting thirsty .... :lol: .

Hi Guys..........I dont want to throw a spanner in your bucket, but......when I enlarged it and lightened it substantially and color corrected the image......( ie. when you can actually see what it is ).......there seems to be a substantial decorative rosette worked into the leather on the top near the stitches which would be a very strange place to put a bucket decoration.
Its probably a unique hat worn to distinguish the wearer for a special post or title or duty. It may have had feathers sticking out and would look really silly to us, but I'll bet the wearer thought he looked marvelous !
( On the other hand, it just might be a leaky wooden bucket with a leather covering and a big decorative rosette at the bottom ! ) Alas....we will never really know...... :eek:

Hi

If someone can read german I can tel you what it is.
It is in the book "Europe s centre around AD 1000".
It is in german, I own it, it is brilliant and full of interesting
artifacts with pictures and measurements.

EUROPAS MITTE UM 1000, katalog
isbn- 3 8062 1544 8


BTW go out and get it, bloody good book!

Hi Sean

Page 258, though they are calling it a helm too?

Measurements H 15.2cm Dm 23.7cm,

I cannot see any floral motif on it? Very clear photograph.
Also very roughly stitched.

Oh I dont have a scanner. Maybe Sean does? If not I will type it
out.

Nick

Nick, if you wouldn't mind typing out the information, that would be great. I am a little tenative about any conclusions that may have been drawn about the artifact, even by the authors of the book, simply because there's no other surviving artifact like it in Europe.

I am certain that it is not a bucket. Besides Richard's point about the floral designs, I have seen surviving medieval buckets, and they're far more "bucket shaped" than the Podevin helmet. In fact, though many other forms of technology have changed in appearance from the medieval to modern periods, medieval buckets would not look all that different from a modern wooden bucket.

A quick glance at the German text reveals something about a leather-covered "flasche" (bottle).

Sorry for the late reply.

I will type it out tonight for you, bit of a rush this morning.


Cheers

Nick

Hi

Here it is

Lederhelm (Podivends Helm)

Das Grab (K3) mit den resten des helmes wurde 1911 bei einer untersuchung der wenzelskappele entdeckt. Es lag westlich der sudlichen Apsis der ehemmaligan St -Veits-Rotunde unter einer romanischer Mauer. Die Helmteile fanden sich versteut zwischen Knochen nachbestattater Individuen. Das Grab selbst wurde mit Podiven, einen Gefolgsmann des heiligen Wenzel in verbindung gebracht, Nach der neuesten fundinterpretation durfte das Grab jedoch erst im 11. Jahrhundert angelegt worden sein.
Der Helm bestand aus zwei Schichten Rindsleder,die in funf Bahmen mit einem wohlehemals groben Faden untereinander vernaht waren. Eine flache,mit leder bespannte runde Holzscheibe bildet den oberen Abschluss des helmes. An den Seiten befinden sich Einschnitte, vermultilich fur den Durchzug eines Riemens. Ein nicht naher zuweisbares Lederteil konnte der Rest einer Wangenklappe gewesen sein. Auch wenn bis heute keine weiteren erhaltenen Exemplare solcher Helme gefundenwurden - lediglich aus Stare Mesto-Na Valach stammt der Rest einer ledernen Kopfbedeckung - wird man eine Verwendung von Lederhelmen in der damaligen Zeit annehmen konnen. Moglicherweise waren solche Helme mit Metallteilen versehen, z.B. mit Visier oder Nasenschutz. Der so genannte POdivenshelm ist mit Durchbohrungen versehen, die nicht naher gedeutet werden konnen. Ob es sich.

OH DEAR KOPF hurts now!

Nick

Hi

I will take a stab at it!

A - it could be some sort of ceremonial cap, either christian or pagan or a mixture of both beliefs, in ceremonial customs. Much like the strange hardened leather face masks found in Russia from the same period.

B - it is a cover for a better made hat of felt or wool, even fur. Simply a foul weather garment.

C- A vessel of sorts, a reliquary? Or a simple sheath/bag to store items.

The stitching, even though old is poorly executed wich makes me think it is not of great importance, though it may be associated with a important function ( ceremony) or object. The stitch work of the Norse, Rus was of great quality at this time in history. And anything worth making was usually made well.

Otherwise a mystery, maybe it was for a fancy dress party? Who knows.

Nick