Hello friends.

I recently purchased an antique sword. Age is about 200 years. The sword seems to be in very good condition, except for one major problem. Before I get into that, PLEASE NOTE that I don’t want to discuss the sale itself, how it happened or who the seller is. I will state that the seller has thus far been very responsive. He has offered to refund my purchase in full. Alternatively, when I brought up the possibility of a repair, he offered to pay for that and discount the sword, if I wish to try that.

The problem is this - the sword has a crack in the blade. :cry: The crack is located approximately 18 inches from the cross / 14 inches from the tip. It is a through crack, i.e., through the entire thickness of the blade, and perpendicular to the length of the blade. The crack is about 13/16 inch long, thus running from the blade back, about 1/2 way to the blade edge, so this is a significant crack. I have attached some photos, below. (The crack is located next to the cork)

My questions for my fellow forumites are as follow:

1. Can such a crack be repaired? If so, how should such a repair be done? What are the risks and any special precautions that should be taken?

2. Even if the crack can be repaired, should such a repair be attempted? Why? Why not?

Why am I asking? Other than the crack, I really like the sword.

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overall view

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blade side (a)

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blade side (b)

I would accept the person's offer for a partial refund. If the sword was damaged in transit, insurance will take care of it. I would not fix the crack. It does not detract from the appearance, but a repair would be much more noticable. Cracks and imperfections are expected in antique weapons and collectors usually tolerate such damage, as long as the weapon is not in danger of falling apart. As long as you treat it with caution and dont attempt to swing the weapon, you should be fine.

Don

Hi Steve,

My sympathy on what may end up being a tough choice. Only you can say whether it is the one you can live without. Also between you and the seller would be an adjustment, repair or no.

There are some real whizzes out there and welding technology is such that it could be welded pretty easily. If it were a piece headed for complete restoration, it might be worth it. The thing is that there is no real way to do it cleanly without a great difference in appearance. It could also be brazed with a hard silver solder. Dismounted and headed for complete refinishing, there are some forging options but is it really a sword to spend that much on.

Appearance is the only real downside to a weld or braze. It is not something you mean to use in striking, or other real use. That is probably a good argument for not repairing it, if the main purpose is appreciation. It survived in its current state for some time (looks like to me) and would probably still outlive us all with due respect in handling.

I'm sure some others will probably have good thoughts on this. I have seen blades that have been repaired, so there is the option. It just becomes a matter of justification. I don't have a good suggestion on who to approach. I do know a pretty techy welder but couldn't warrant an outcome (if he were interested). There are sword restorers around.

Cheers and best of luck with a happy outcome

GC

Can we get more pictures of goodness??

I would tend to agree with Don on this. Any repair will involve heat and that heat is of a temperature that will screw with the temper of the blade before you even tackle the esthetics issues that will arise. I've cleaned a fair number of welds in my time to be "seamless" but it takes alot of time and coupled with the temper issue I would say leave it alone if you opt to keep it. I wouldn't fault you at all for taking him up on the discount if you opt to hold onto it as you paid a very respectable dollar for this one based on it not having this flaw or for that matter asking for your cash back if your so inclined but I wouldn't try to restore it.

My personal preference, if the sword was mine, would be to ask for a price reduction and keep it as is. It is a really beautiful example of a stirrup-hilted spadroon, and who knows, maybe the damage is period? The soldering fixes I have seen are quite visible and turn me off to a sword. In most cases (that I have seen), this type of fix is the result of a complete break in a blade. Whether or not it should be attempted is a personal decision and will depend on one's goals as a collector. Once again, if I was in this situation, I would ask myself how a fix would contribute to or enhance the sword. For me, a fix would not add anything becuase I would not be swinging the sword or using it to cut, etc. If the crack is so severe as to compromise the integrity of the blade (i.e., it's gonna break) and I was keeping the sword, I would probably opt to preserve it rather than let it fall apart.

(Hmm...Did that answer any questions or was I just preaching?)

Jonathan

PS--I understand your pain! It's a beauty!

I would either leave it as-is or send it back for a full refund. A repair would compromise any value it has as an antique. Not to mention that a repair would be somewhat tricky, not knowing exactly what the blade is made of, how it was heat treated ,etc.

If you are mainly concerned about preventing the crack from propagating, I would propose a repair using one of the aircraft-grade epoxies intended for steel, such as Loctite Hysol 9460. This way you do not need heat for the repair. The area should be carefully cleaned with a solvent such as acetone before applying the epoxy. This particular epoxy cures gray in color, but there are similar Hysol epoxies that cure white, so you could stain it to match the blade color.

Antiques cannot be touched as long as you want to preserve them.

Any intervention that would be not completely reversible would not be accepted by any real expert in museum care.

Just leave as it is, the crack is part of it history.

Hi Steve,

By appreciation, I was certainly meaning exhibition and not monetary. Also implied in my commentary was that although some welding/brazing techniques might alter hardness, it is irrelative because the item would not likely be used as a functional sword. A spot or two with a tig welder would hardly touch the temper of the rest of the blade. The aesthetic and collectible considerations would still apply.

I somewhat disagree that the value would be harmed a great deal unless the work was outrageously sloppy. I also somewhat disagree that conservation and preservation could never include some stablizing repair.

Considering the general flexibility (read thinness) of these blades, general handling of this piece in its current condition would be of concern to me. Mine, I know I can put in the hands of the public and know that an accidental bump on the table is not likely to cause any undue harm. I don't really see these as rare and common examples deserve hands on appreciation, albeit needing slightly more than ordinary care.

Me, I would leave it alone if I kept it but would have been much more likely to send it back. I didn't want to be that blunt about it and it wouldn't have addressed your questions.

I'm not sure if I know this particular sword but it does look familiar. I look forward to any more pictures you are able to share.

(Jonathan beat me to the article link)
Cheers

GC

Jonathan - thanks for the conservation link. The article looks like a helpful reference!

Glen A Cleeton wrote:

...Considering the general flexibility (read thinness) of these blades, general handling of this piece in its current condition would be of concern to me. Mine, I know I can put in the hands of the public and know that an accidental bump on the table is not likely to cause any undue harm. I don't really see these as rare and common examples deserve hands on appreciation, albeit needing slightly more than ordinary care....

I do like 'show-and-tell' with my swords, so perhaps my biggest concern is the ability of the piece to withstand general handling.

Jonathan Hopkins wrote:

...Have you ... decided to keep it? ... (I hope so!)

Glen A Cleeton wrote:

...Me, I would leave it alone if I kept it but would have been much more likely to send it back. I didn't want to be that blunt about it and it wouldn't have addressed your questions.

The jury is out for this sword. My mind is somewhere between the two of you. I will take some pictures this weekend, and see whatever other helpful comments come in from our friendly forumites in the meantime, and decide after that.

Good point, Glen, about allowing others to handle the sword--especially those who have not handled antiques before. I have a few swords in my collection that I hesitate to allow people to handle. With these swords, I tend to allow "sword people" to hold and examine the pieces, but would be reluctant to let others do the same. As I said in my original post, your goals should matter when you consider keeping the sword. If you want to allow others to hold a piece of history, this might not be the ideal piece. But that depends on frequency of handling, etc.

As a hyper-vigilant and controlling teenager, I would set ground rules with people who handled my swords: clean hands, no touching the blade with bare fingers, no swinging or sweet moves, and let's look at it over a soft surface, like a carpeted floor. I have relaxed since then, but I also don't have many people come to see my collection.

I think that all points presented are quite valid, which complicates the decision making process. Good luck!

Jonathan

Thanks for that bit of information, David. I am now wondering if my late 18th century British hanger has such a weld. It is much more discernable in person:
[ Linked Image ]
It still lives in Wisconsin, so I cannot inspect it at the moment (d'oh!). Sorry if this is straying off-topic!