Howdy folks,

I was browsing the myArmoury links page, and I went through the list of sword manufacturers visiting the pages I did not know. So I found my self on "Arms and Armor" in the Czech republic http://www.arms-armor.cz/index.php.

From aesthetical perspective their daggers and swords really pleased my eye.
Here are the respective pages:

http://www.arms-armor.cz/index.php?catalog=tr...ategory=SW
http://www.arms-armor.cz/index.php?catalog=tr...ategory=DA

They claim that the swords are full tang, peened. The weights are reasonable. So far so good. How much do they cost?
Do they perform as well as they look?

I would appreciate any info regarding their products.

Cheers,
Alexi

You can read my Review of a Falchion for my hands-on experience.

What did you decide to do with that falchion, Nathan? It looks salvageable, albeit only by grinding that blade and repolishing it. The pitting could be incorporated in and antiqued/aged finish, maybe... I'm pretty surprised anybody would ship out a sword with such obvious geometry problems as are shown in the pics...

No money in my world these days or I'd consider it as a project sword. I figure I could at least grind it to a better finish on the blade... I'm so poor right now that I can't even upgrade my membership, though... Otherwise I already would have....

I remember being very disappointed when I read your article, Nathan, because I'd considered buying that very falchion.

It's strange, because I've handled a few of their swords, and the ones I handled were pretty nice. They were blunt for reenactment, but not at all heavy. The fit and finish was mostly very good, though somewhat "machined" looking (a la Lutel). So I guess the quality must vary from model to model.

Greetings All,


I have 3 Items from these guys all of which I like. I thouraghly read Nathans review and agree with what he says as such but I approach from a different angle so was nowhere near as dissapointed myself.

To be honest these swords were never made for collectors like nathan (no offense intended). Nathan would tend to focus on finish whereas I have always been more interested in battlefield weapons rather then the weaponery of the nobels you find in museums. (although, yes, this is a gross generalisation)

First off the bat these swords were never, ever designed as sharps. To sharpen it is to ruin it. Im a little weirded out by the fact theiron sold it as a sharp. The edges are flat, 2-3 mms. They are Beater swords, designed for a lot of daily use and never designed to be put on a wall. The fitnish isnt perfect in any way. There are pits in the pommels and guards and the finish is what I would describe as brushed steel rather then satin, but its definatly a working finish. The steel Is Kinda soft. At first this annoyed me but I got used to it and began to appriciate the fact it needs to be a bit softer to survive being bashed up all the time. A solid edge on edge strike would nick the edge but your not supposed to be staticcly blocking anyways (lol yea..not a closed book). I enquired about it at the time and the jist of it all is the hardness suits the intended useage. Which swings me back to the sharpness thing, The sword was never designed as a sharp and the steel is not tempered with edge retention in mind. Methinks again that sharpening the blade was a disservice and frankly I would have thaught nathan knew better. Like you can sharpen a Del tin and people did it before they knew any better but now we know more about edge geometry and we should know better themn blunts should remain blunts and sharps should remain sharp, The right tool for the job. To try to make a tool do something it was never designed to do is always gonna lead to dissapointment.


That said here is a run down of my A&AM weapons:


First up is the SW038 Viking
[ Linked Image ]

This is a stout sword. Its a mighty chopper. I have a much lighter Practical viking and I way prefer this sword, Its more meaty and manly. I have beat the hell out of this sword. All the fittings are still tight and I believe that It will last me for a good few more years of use and abuse. There are some nicks on teh edge, but nothing catastrophic and were all caused by an edge on edge block and were expected.

The pommell is a traditional pinned on lobe 2 piece pommell and the peening is well blended. The Lobe isnt a perfect fit onto the lower part of the pommell but this is only slight. The spiral wrapped leather handle started to peela tad. I could have dabbed a bit of glueonto it and it would have been perfect again but I happened to have some really nice high quality golf club grip leather so I took off the wrap and re-did it. This was my choice but in reality the wrap shouldnt have come up in the first place but again not really a biggie.

SO what do I think about this sword. Well I love it. Its a real users sword. Its feels solid, Its well sturdy and its nigh on indestructable. Its rough around the edges, like me :-). Is it a replica of a viking sword, No Its not. Its a blunt sparring blade designed for daily re-enactment and sparring use.


Next Up is the SW039 hand and a half sword

[ Linked Image ]


This sword again is fairly stout. Its blunt same as teh viking and essentially has a lot of the same charicteristics. Its not the most agile of blades but by no means unweildy. It flexes well and has survived a hall of a lot of abuse. I love this sword deeply. This bad-boy, although 2mm blunt has chopped some serious stuff. My friend mike who has an awesome swing (hes a pro golfer so no surprise there) has chopped a 2 liter bottle of Frozen water (aka ICE :-) ) in two cleanly. He has smashed 2X4 freeestanding planks of timber. We have chopped a million and one water filled aluminum cans with this as well. Its been sparred with, shoved through cookers and car doors (LOL not really car doors but I threw that in for shock effect) and its survived grand.

The wire wrap could have been a bit better as its ever so slightly loose, but again not a big deal or really noticable at all.

The handle does click from time to time but the fittings are all really secure still dispite the abuse its recieved. The fittings do have minor pits that can be seen with the naked eye.



Next up we have the AX009 horsemans/gothic axe
[ Linked Image ]


I really liked this axe asthetically. Its blade is about 1-1 1/2 mm blunt but teh back spike is sharp. It proabably shouldnt be as its a sparring/reenactment axe and teh spikes make it a live blade, unsafe for such acts. Again its roughly finished, better served to be used then hung on a wall. The metal is teh same as on their swords and to be hionest It shouldnt be. Their maces are also teh same steel and treat as well but this makes them too soft for an impact weapon.

One night the axe attacked a TV and the tv won. Teh spike boyt bent and hairline split and teh blade got slightly warped. I am confident however it would hav esurvived years and years of normal use. All teh Joins and fitting are still 100% dispite the abuse. So again This isnt an axe designed as a real axe, Its a tool for sparring/reenactment. I have to say before I wrecked the spike It did go through a phone book with ease! Scary stuff.






So thats that. The right tools for the Job. Ill admit they could be finished better but why? So I care that my lump hammer has a few puts in the steel? no. Therse are TOOLS, pure and simple. If you want a display or historically accureate piece these are not the weapons for you. Deltins are designed as fuinctional weapons that can be hung on the wall.


So why but these when A lutel is the same price and is better finished with harder steel and better edge retention etc? Simple really, Id mess up my lutel. I feel good about playing with the A&AM's. The want to be played with and dont pretend to be anything they arent. If peopel try to pretend they arent what they are like with nathens sharpening thing they will fail you misribly. (again that isnt a jab at nathan, Hal shouldnt have sharpened it or at least should have disclaimerd teh process properly)


Anyway Thats Just my take on it...on a side note the guys in A&Am are extremly nice, helpfull and prompt. I would reccomend them to anybody.


Ciaran

To be fair, I don't think Nathan was complaining that the sword wasn't a high level collector's piece. I think he was stating that for the price he would have expected better, and I personally would agree just based on that review. Especially the part about the serial number on the pommel. Why on earth would the company think that was okay, especially when they mostly cater to reenacters?

And regardless of what the sword was intended for, Nathan requested it sharp, so they should have sharpened it correctly. Plain and simple. (Though Nathan does address the fact that he realized after it arrived that it was a blunt that was sharpened as opposed to a sword that was intended to be sharp.) But (and Nathan, correct me if I'm putting words in your mouth), I have a feeling that he requested it sharp because some other companies, like Lutel, make a sharp and a blunt version, with the sharp version being lighter and more realistic in terms of handling.

Nathan, did Hal sharpen it? I thought for some reason I read that it was ordered sharpened from the A&AM?

If you read the review, I think it explains it rather well. I stand by everything in the review. Every product we look at has to be weighed against its price point.

In the case of these products, they simply do not represent a good value at the asking prices. When I look at a sword, I not only look at its intended purpose, I look at how it compares to a historic sword that these things are trying to replicate. Products that are ill-proportioned, weighted incorrectly, lacking dynamic properties of authentic swords, etc. may very well be considered "tools" but they certailny aren't good at being a sword.

In the case of the falchion, it cost over $315 and doesn't compare favorably to other products on the market at that price. Furthermore, it doesn't compare favorably to other falchions on the market. The Del Tin version or the Lutel version are both lower priced, both more historically accurate, both better finished, and both just as capable of being used in the same manner as the A+Am sword. And that's the bottom line.

And, for the record, Hal from Therion did not have the sword sharpened. It arrived from Arms+Armor Manufacture of the Czech Republic sharpened. They created this sword exactly as it is. And they did a piss poor job at it, too.

So, in fact, I do disagree with you: my falchion -is- attempting to be something it's not. It's attempting to be historically accurate. it's not. It's attempting to be a good value. It's not.

Since you're being so critical, let's look at a subset of the marketing information from A+Am:

Quote:

Its products are suitable for a wide range of people as well as institutions interested in history i.e. fencers, collectors, filmmakers, and museums. Some types of weapons are also becoming very popular for interior decoration. The parts of these weapons are handmade with the greatest workmanship. The interior design originates from historic records, and emphasis is put on functionality and durability. The quality of these weapons has been proved over recent years with outdoor martial exhibitions. The weaponry is produced strictly according to the original specifications, however, for more demanding customers certain parts can be modified to suit individual requirements.

It may be your opinion that these products are not suited for collectors or people interested in historical accuracy, but it is certainly not the opinion of the makers, themselves. They mentiont that they put an emphasis on functionality and durability. I believe most swords made in the 15th century, for example, also emphasized functionality and durability. Should I be reading their statement to mean that they overbuild their products to the point of being quite different than the historical counterparts that inspire them? But wouldn't that be completely counter to the statement, "The weaponry is produced strictly according to the original specifications"?

Yep, Bill, you're right on all accounts.

Well I guess I have to readjust my conception of the aesthetic properties of the their swords :lol: . The pictures on their website are not close enough to see pitting and irregularities, even though one could notice poor fuller finnish, if one looks for it. Interestingly enough, on their website they do not have the serial numbers on the pommel, at least on the falchion which has pics of the pommel from both sides.

Valuable, valuable source of information this forum has :)

Alexi

That's a shame, because they have some really nice hilt designs. Too bad they're ruined by bad finishes and an ideologically "untrue" direction.

I've handled their SW025 single hand sword, SW027 hand and a half, and a couple other of their hand and a halfs. I think I've handled about four total models. The SW025 I was very impressed with for the price: It was lively in the hands, and looked pretty good overall. The longswords were all just a tad on the heavy side, but not outside of historical parameters. They balanced well, and I overall liked them. It's been a couple years since I saw them, so my memory's a little hazy about it, but of the ones I saw, I would recommend them for being worth the asking price. But none of them exhibited the negative qualities of Nathan's falchion, which may say something about their quality control as well as the ups and downs of different models.

Just to note I bought the products direct from A&AM in trhe czech republic and paid signifiglently less the What it would cost through Hal due to shipping + reseller markup etc.

I would also Like to state after reading the replys That I read nathans artical carefully before I posted and as an owner of their pieces and a regular user of their weaponery I felt that I would offer my perspective. I believe collector like nathan will always be dissapointed by A&AMs wares. My sword Purchasing criteria and useage is completly different to nathans as I explained as well. So, Bill, I was playing devils advocate and giving details from a different perspective so the readers can get a more rounded opinion of thuis companys products. I did not misread or misunderstand nathans review as you so elequently indicated towards but I thank you for stating the obvious anyways.

Hugs and kisses guys, we will have to agree to disagree on these blades.


Ciaran


Oh A quick edit: On none of my 3 pieces is there any visable serial number, I know not why they would put one on it and totally concede it shouldnt be there.