Hello all!
Patrick,
I meant
relatively slow and ponderous (perhaps not the best words to use) as compared to the later war swords of types XVa and XVIIIa, and certainly as compared to their smaller brethren! I think you will agree that different swords handle differently!
I don't think you can compare the Svante to these type XIIIa's, it's like comparing apples to oranges. Even XIIa's must handled a bit different, sine they exhibit a bit of a taper to their blades. A better comparison would be Arms & Armour's 12th Century Sword. I believe you may have handled that one. Does it handle the same as the Svante?
Yes, the big swords could still be wielded effectively (even
Oakeshott stated that they handled well
if handled correctly), but I doubt they would be used in a complicated fencing technique. The smaller swords were better suited for that! The big great swords were designed to deliver devastating downward blows, often from horseback. The description of the battle of Benevento, and scenes in period art, both seem to indicate this type of usage for this type of sword. The Germans must have raised their arms significantly for the French to stab them in the armpits, implying that the Germans raised their big swords up over their head, or thereabouts, and brought them "crashing" down in a downward blow. The figure from the Tenison Psalter that Oakeshott showed in almost every one of his books also shows the sword being swung in a similar fashion. This movement is
roughly similar to the way an axe is wielded, but of course a European sword is not an axe. Of course, we can just throw out all period art as unreliable, but I think we then lose a valuable tool for study (and one that has been utilized by scholars in the past).
I'm not trying to resurrect or propagate the old myth that medieval swords were unwieldy. I know enough to know that they weren't crowbars! What I am saying is that these big great swords had a specific purpose. Were they slower? I believe slightly,
relatively speaking. I think Elling nailed it on the head when he talked about recovery time, and maybe I should have specifically said that these swords were slower in respect to that. Physics dictates that an object weighing 4 pounds, regardless of it's "dynamic properties", will have more more inertia and more momentum than an object weighing 2 pounds (momentum = mass x velocity). A warrior would have to overcome that additional inertia to get the blade moving. Also, he would have to overcome that added momentum to change the direction of his swing, or recover quickly. Also, geometry dictates that the larger sword will cut a larger arc, if used in an "overhead" downward blow. If a sword 45 inches long is swung at the same rate as a sword 35 inches long, the larger sword will take more time to reach the same point (rate=distance/time), since the radius of the arc is larger, and the arc therefore will be larger. It might be only a fraction of a second difference, but the larger sword will be
relatively slower!
I don't own any Albions, I don't have the means to afford one right now, and maybe that alone is enough to convince some that I shouldn't even take part in this discussion. However, I do own several MRL swords, including one old MRL Del Tin. My MRL Del Tin, the "Man-at-Arms Sword", roughly a type XVIII, weighs about 3 pounds, but feels much heavier than my newer Windlass MRL swords. My MRL Schwert actually feels better in the hand, even though it is roughly a type Xa. My Arbedo is a true hand-and-a-half sword; it's a tick slow in one hand, but remarkably fast in two. My generic Windlass War Sword (not the one that was recently in the catalog, but one they discounted a while back) is almost a two-handed sword; I can wield it in one hand, but not as well as my one-handed swords. It feels much better in two, but it seems to want to move in a great downward arc. It feels best when swung in that fashion.
Yes, I don't own any "quality" replicas, but I've been reading about this stuff, and examining period artwork, for years. Most artwork shows these swords used in the same fashion, a great downward blow. Yes, they were capable of sophisticated maneuvers during sword play, as evidenced by l.33, but my argument is that the big great swords weren't designed for that sort of sword play. They were specifically designed to deal devastating blows in the hurlyburly of the battlefield. Do you believe that complicated fencing techniques were really appropriate for the melee? These were called war swords for a reason, they weren't the "everyday" sword of the knight, but swords specifically designed for the battlefield.
There have been a lot of talk lately about the capability of swords against mail. Most backyard testers have concluded that mail could not be cut or otherwise defeated by swords. I believe that this is wrong, since the Germans with their great swords seem to have been able to mow down the French as Benevento. I know many find period art to be suspect, but period art also shows many examples of knights being cut down by swords. I believe these big swords were designed, in part, to defeat mail. How did they do this? Did they use a diagonal cut? It's more likely that they used a "crushing" downward blow, as implied by the description of Benevento, and period art such as the Tenison Psalter. This is similar to the way an axe is wielded. Of course, the swords may have broken bones instead of defeated the mail itself. A smashed shoulder would certainly put a knight out of action! Still, this implies a powerful crushing blow, not a "glancing cut"!
It was implied that the French swords at the battle of Benevento were quicker, as compared to the German great swords. Yes, they used the thrust instead of the cut, and it could be the difference between the distance a cut must travel versus the distance a thrust must travel. However, we're also back to physics and geometry: the French had less inertia and momentum to overcome with their smaller swords, and their blades cut a smaller arc. Their swords were better at sophisticated sword play than those wielded by their German adversaries!
I hope this helped to clarify my position! If not, I guess we will have to agree to disagree!
Stay safe!