Simple question with a bit more difficult answer:


I am interested in my first Albion sword. Preiviously, I've bought 4 swords -- a swept hilt rapier for sparring from triplette, a huge unweildy piece of stainless steel wallhanger rapier that doesn't deserve to be called a sword, Windlass' earlier Sword of War (a decent blade, but overly flexible), and my last purchase (arrived several weeks ago), was the windlass shrewsbury. Obviously all are the low end of the market...

Now the several albion's I'm interested in are....

the Templar
the Senlac
the Hospitaller
the Knight
the Ritter

any opinions about which one(s) are better than others? I realize albion makes suburp swords but by better I mean handling and asthetics.


thanks for your help!

I have some Albions, but none from your list. Do a search on these items, and you will find that the Knight has received some very high praise as a sword that Albion got very right. Read the review on this website.

I just bought the Norman, it is very similar to the Senlac. I think you will like the Senlac or the Templar if a type XA appeals to you.

Just a thought. If you're reading the Knight review, as suggested, you might want to look also at the review of the squire line knightly in sharpened form. I've got one and I have to agree with what the reviewer says about it. That aside, I've got the Senlac and a like that a lot too. Slightly better finish, more of a cutter, less of a thruster, more expensive. In the final analysis, what feels or looks good to you is likely to be different from what anyone else will think, at least in detail. Maybe you'd be best to try to get to handle the swords, although that may not be an option for you (as it wasn't for me).
Regards
Geoff

I'm leaning toward the ritter actually....

its a very interesting sword....


oddly enough neither the hilt or the blade or to my liking as individuals but.....when they are together on this piece, the work just stands out from the crowd.

the templar is another sword that I'm leaning toward, as the long cruciform sword looks sooooo subtly elegant :p


anyone have more info on these two?

and thanks for anyone that's responded

The Templar, Knight and Ritter have all been reviewed. Have you checked out the reviews page?

Of those three (all of which I've handled and cut with), my preference is for the Knight in terms of handling, hands-down. Visually, the Ritter is weird, but a good weird. :) I terms of Visual character, I'd rank them:

1) Ritter
2) Knight
3) Templar

The Knight will be more versatile in cutting and thrusting than that other two, and will fit more time periods and locales than the other two. It's more "classic" in my mind and less hard to fit into a variety of personas.

Hi Greyson,

I own a Norman and a Templar, and I have handled the Knight. I don't think the Templar gets enough credit as it has a very impressive cross section and blade pressence. If you are drawn to the Ritter which is an inspiration of a germanic early to mid 13th C. design I say go for it.

It should be pointed out that the Knight handles FANTASTICALLY. I have gone outside of my period of interest to purchase the Solingen because I hear it handles similarly even superiorly.

Just ask what you want to know about these swords and I will do my best to answer them, though I really can't say anything about the handling of the Ritter.

I have found, though that it really doesn't mean anything to say this sword handles BETTER than that sword. Each Albion has a character which is it's own and can be described beter in descriptive terms and is rather subjective as well.

Jeremy

Mr. Arnow, I read the reviews over and over until my head hurts and I find them very useful. I just want to know more about them!


I read in the review of the Ritter that the sword gets little in the way of remarks cause it looks weird to people. Like Chad that "weirdness" is what turns me on to it. it's so far from the expected norm of hollywood and the movie industry.

I see the knight handles wonderfully and is moderately inexpensive compared to other albions. Even though I have never yet seen let alone touch an albion, I can see clearly that each sword, as you said Mr. Krause, has its own distinct personality.

I wish I could talk to someone who has handled the ritter. The templar seems to be a highly underrated sword, but at least people have handled it. To date, I've seen no other comment on the ritter other the myArmoury's review, to which I am very grateful for.

Thanks a lot for everyone's help, its greatly appreciated. This sword (whichever I choose) is going to break me for a few years at least! (not easy for a sixteen year old to make good money, unfortunately :( ) All help is greatly valued and I'm so happy that people are taking the time to help me find my perfect sword :)



edit:


Mr Arnow, I see that you've cut with the Ritter? could you tell me how well it handles or other aspects that are interesting? I'm not sure if it matters on a typical medieval cruciform sword , but I'm left handed, if thats important. same goes for the Templar if you could. I've had virtually no cutting practice other than the average organge (my blade is STILL stained from that!) and a water filled mik jug a week. Thanks!

As discussed in This Topic, Ralph Rudolph has an Albion Ritter. You could ask him for input.

There are other discusisons of the Ritter on this site, too. The use of the search function will find them for you.

Cheers

Alright, Chad it is then ;). Just thought it would be more respectful if I referred to you (and others) more politely unless I was told otherwise. Always better to be too polite than disrespectful, especially as I'm certainly one of the youngest people here, and I have far less experience than the average person on this site as well.


You are certainly not the only person that has said the knight handles like a dream. Everywhere I go, I see only favorable comments about this sword. on the flip side though, as you mentioned, it seems a bit too....generic, per say, for my taste. The ritter on the other hand has gotten a dearth of reviews as it is certainly not appealing in sight to everyone. It's quite an obscure hilt.

For intended use...hm.....

While, I don't intend on separating ones head from ones neck in the heat of battle , it is always nice to know that you have a sword in your hand that could truly be used by a man at arms in the thick of combat. I can't say that I have trust in anyone of my windlasses for this purpose. Don't get me wrong, windlass is a great company and they make great quality swords for the price. But they are not something that you would risk your life upon like an Albion.

I will certainly use the sword for the usual backyard tree trimming, fruit salad - making, and water-filled jug disembowlment, but it won't get heavier use than that, most likely. As said before, I like the idea that it could be used for a more authentic purpose. Hope that helps.

However, if I decide to make a kit I would go with what era I am most interested in. Would you happen to know the approximate dates of the Knight, Ritter, and Templar?


Thanks Chad (and anyone else who responds of course!)

Hello Greyson,

I don´t know if I can offer advice as to what sword you should choose.

I just thought I´d add some ideas.
The Ritter is a represetative of a type that has a number of fine surviving originals. One of the finest is in the Historical Museum in Berlin. They were often big weapons. The Ritter is smaller than the one in Berlin, but has an almost identical hilt and very similar blade, just scaled down a bit. The Ritter is still a substantial sword. It will cut efficiently. For some it will pose very little problems but others have had to get use to it.
I have myself seen a few nice feats done with this sword at cutting demos. At one time a WMA practitioner was using a 33 cl plasticbottle as target. With such a small bottle you can send it flying if you do not hit cleanly. At this occasion the swordsman managed to get some five to six cut in the bottle with the tip of the Ritter, placed so that a web of the bottle was intact after the whole series of cuts. Only a small amount of water seeped through the cuts. The bottle did not move at all. Afterwards the bottle was folded/splayed open like an accordion.
...So the Ritter can indeed cut rather well.
Personally I like this type f sword very much. I worked with the design trying to capture the originals as closely as possible. They form an important family, holding a prominent roel in the history of the sword. You also see them often in art from the mid 13th C.

The Knight is the most immediate in the group. It is mean to represent the a classic. It does become very familiar because of this. Not much to surprice you, but a dependable swor with sweet handling.
I use it myself a lot when I do demonstrations, just becuase it will always deliver at least decent cuts regardless of my form.

The Templar is more demanding. It is the "heaviest" of the three in heft and feeling. It will also cut, but is quite a horse mans weapon. In the group it is the one that handles closest to the Sword of Saint Maurice from Turino.

Hope these words can provide some further ground for your decision.

Best regards
Peter

Hey Grayson,
look into my thread about the Ritter, I added information for you today here
I'm surprised (and proud) to read here that my humble assessment of the sword matches with the intentions of its creator - it found the right home, Peter :cool:

Grayson, if you are price-conscious, your decision could be nudged along by looking at "The Marketplace" in myArmoury: there is a Templar on sale since today For Sale: Albion next Gen Templar :!:

Wow, what an honor! Thank you Peter for your post. It's helped a lot. would you by anychance, just for curiosity purpouses, have any pictures of the originals? When I went to Germany I was more castle touring rather than museum touring -- a sad fact that I resent greatly. I would love to see the museums in Solingen and Munich.


Ralph, I saw your post, Thanks :)

Unfortunately, I don't have the money for the sword yet, and I'm saving up; A slow process but I'm getting there!



ah well, Thanks guys!

Grayson,
Have you checked out our articles on the various Oakeshott Types or on Ewart Oakeshott himself? Those will help show you the timeframes of the various blade forms and hilt components. The reviews on this site also often discuss the time periods in which various blade, guard, and pommel forms were popular.

If you're not in a financial position to buy the sword right now, then you have time to read about the background of the various types and make a more informed decision. :)

Grayson,
if you have time by saving, you should buy what your heart tells you.

Just a sidenote: the Ritter is, as you got already from the posts here, not an everyday sword. Consequently Albion will produce only a small edition of 100. This means you might have problems when selling it later, and also rarely finding one on the market. It's more a special item when you really want to go into collecting and keep it longer.

On the other hand, the Knight is more of an "everybody's darling" and a good seller (hopefully), Albion consequently putting 1000 of it on the market. You might easily grab a used one for a better price, and sell yours in case it is not to your liking.
The Templar is somewhat inbetween with an edition of 500.

Well I have to say that I just handled a good number of the Albion single-handed swords for the first time this weekend and I was very impressed with the Knight. In fact I would have bought it if I hadn't forced myself to go the extra mile and grab a Gallowglass. The knight felt really good in hand. I also learned that you really can't go wrong with an Albion :D

The Ritter and the Knight are, or course, two vastly different swords with very different characters. However, both have much to recommend them.

When I received the Knight for review I had no intention of buying one. I already had two similar swords in my collection and saw no need for a third, that changed as soon as I pulled the Knight from the shipping box. This one represents what we consider to be a classic medieval design. By the number of surviving examples we may assume it was a highly popular style in its day. It's a very good "jack of all trades" kind of design. It's a very good cutter and also possesses decent thrusting capabilities when compared to contemporary designs. It is indeed a very forgiving design when used at the cutting stand. The Knight is a sword that will easily make its owner look good in that regard.

The Ritter is a very different beast. I had little interest in swords of this type before handling the Ritter, now they intrigue me to a high degree. I had preconceived notions about the type being ponderous and ungainly, yet in the end I found the Ritter to have very pleasant handling qualities for the type. This one is a much more mission-specific sword than something like the Knight. It was designed mainly to do one thing: deliver heavy shearing blows to a mail clad opponent. I have little doubt the Ritter would do this very well. It's a more period-specific design as well, not being as widely popular for as long a period as swords like the Knight were. If someone had a specific interest in the crusading era this would be an excellent choice for a period kit. In a way you could say the Ritter makes a bit more of a statement than something like the Knight.

They're both excellent swords for their individual types. It really boils down to which one speaks to you more.

hmm...Thats bad news, Ralph. It will take at least 2 months for me to get the funds for the sword. I hope I don't run into any snares with this :confused:


Patrick, My preference in history is a bit evanesce. I value all historical warfare from the Pax Romana to Waterloo but my main interests lie in the high middle ages. That may change, as it has before. note: the following is a bit corny: I was once very interested in the civil war (around the age of 4 albiet). that lasted for a while until I got my first lego set (knights was the theme) which sparked my love for edged weaponry (plastic style! woot :lol: ). I then played age of empires 2 and it started me on an immediate path to the actual historical side of combat. I loved the rennaissance with all of its pointy swords (sadly, I'd never heard of a rapier) and puffy clothes. but then, lo and behold, my interests switched to the late middle ages with its panoplies of armour and longswords. I got bored of this at 13 and switched to Rome and the legons (legio XIV gemina martia victrix is awesome ;) ). Now I'm fully recovered and into the high middle ages. So my interests NOW mainly include the chainmaille era knight of europe. The Ritter and the knight both fall into this category , no? Aesthetically the Ritter is more appealing, but the Knight, I've heard, handles flawlessly. The templar has faded away a bit in my mind....It doesn't seem to hold the same appeal as the knight and Ritter do.


Ah well, I have 2 months to decide!


Thanks for everyone's help, its greatly appreiciated. I would really like to know that I've spent my money on something 101% worthwhile. Don't get me wrong with that last statement though. every albion sword in my opinion would be 100% worthwhile, but I want something that is personable and reflects my own subtle desires in a blade.