Dear friends,

In October of last year I was the successful bidder on the Hermann Historica, Munchen, Bavaria, Auction 45 Lot 1129 which included bronze pieces that included two pins, an axe and the sword below.

If anyone wants to get onto the HH emailing list for notice of their auctions should contact me and I will forward your email to Ernst Wagner who would be pleased to assist you. Just don't bid against me! Their catalog will be posted on their website. Here is their description of the lot:
Lot Nr.1129 Schwert und Beil, bronzezeitlich, um 1200 v.Chr. Bronze mit starker grüner Patina. Kräftige Klinge, am Ansatz zwei Nietlöcher, eines mit erhaltener Vernietung. Randleistenbeil mit gerundeter Schneide. Dazu zwei verbogene Bronzenadeln mit Kerbdekor und flachen Abschlussköpfen. Gereinigte Bodenfunde. Länge 16 bis 44 cm.Condition: II-III Limit: 500.00 EURO
550,00 EURO
If you want to see the picture in their catalog, go to: http://hermann-historica.com/ and click on the first catalog picture, then look for lot number 1129. Sorry, pictures do not accompany the text when I cut and paste.

The sword 1s 17.3" (44 cm.) long and retains one of the rivets. I figured my cost for this sword at $550. The rivet is .5" (1.4 cm) long and I have no idea how this could have been securely mounted to a hilt, hope someone can make a suggestion. The rivets extend less than .25" from the blade surface.

I date this sword to 1600 BC, Middle Bronze Age, but it could be earlier, the axe in the lot dates to the Late Early Bronze Age, several hundred years earlier.

Hansel, Alix. Die Funde der Bronzezeit aus Bayern. Page 35

I have also posted a discussion thread that duplicates this posting on The Sword Forum International.

Best regards, John Piscopo

---

 Attachment: 30.55 KB



 Attachment: 9.55 KB
[ Download ]

 Attachment: 28.37 KB
[ Download ]

Congratulations to a fine sword!

Yes, congratulations John !

The design for attaching the hilt does seem rather a weak one !
You'd think the hilt would have incorporated some support bars along the blade to help keep the rivets/hilt from tearing away ? ........ but my knowledge with these types is very limited !

You have quite the fine collection , thanks for sharing it ! Mac

Dear Thomas and Peter,

I should point out that while the attachment point is very weak, the sword blade itself is quite robust and sturdy, the foundryman who cast it was not short of metal. The cross section is lens shaped and the blade still retains an edge but not a sharp point. I would like to get a metallurgical analysis at some point.

John Piscopo wrote:

Quote:

I should point out that while the attachment point is very weak, the sword blade itself is quite robust and sturdy, the foundryman who cast it was not short of metal. The cross section is lens shaped and the blade still retains an edge but not a sharp point. I would like to get a metallurgical analysis at some point.

Hi John,

Interesting that the edge shows signs of having been sharpened while the point does not. The Bronze Age "rapiers" from Ireland showed a similar "weakness" in that there are no tangs; instead, like your purchase, the hilts are rivited directly onto the blade itself. This construction has led to the assumption that these weapons were primarily used for thrusting.

The fact that your sword seems to show that it was used for edge-work makes me wonder if the collective wisdom about such swords is in error. Is it possible that the smiths overcame the apparent weakness in a way that we haven't quite guessed?

David

Dear David,

The only sure way that such a blade could be securely riveted to a hilt would be if the hilt were of metal that would fit over the blade and be riveted through the metal hilt. Not too pleased with this idea, if it was so there would have been some surviving hilts as they would have been much bulkier and heavier to fit the hand.

I dislike speculating without evidence, just want to point out the problems so that we can gets some good minds thinking about the problem.

Hi John!

im not common with this bronze age, but your thread made me interested a bit.
searching a picture of a mounted blade i found one that might be interesting for you.

http://www.gi.rwth-aachen.de/forschung/dauerf.../arch.html

its in german so id like to translate the text written next to the last picture.


Bild 2: Röntgenaufnahme des Griffs eines süddeutschen Vollgriffschwertes (Schwert mit Metallgriff) der mittleren Bronzezeit. Deutlich zu erkennen ist der für diesen Typus exemplarische massive Knauf. Die dünne Wandung der Griffstange entstand durch Guß über einen Tonkern. Die Klinge wird ausschließlich durch zwei seitliche Niete in der kurzen, nach oben verjüngten Griffzunge und die angeschmiedete Heftunterkante fixiert. Es besteht kein Kontakt mit der Griffwandung. Die Schäftung wurde mit Fortschritt der Bronzezeit hinsichtlich der Stabilität optimiert.

Picture 2: X-ray photo of the grip of a south german Full-grip-sword (sword with metal grip) of the middle bronze age. Clearly visible is the for this type exemplary massive grip. The thin wall of the grip results from casting above a clay core. The blade is exclusively fixed with two rivets - one on each side - in the short grip tongue (that gets smaller upwards) and the to the lower edge of the on forged haft. There is no contact with the walls of the grip. This mounting got optimized with regards to stability with the advance of the bronze age.

sorry if the content lost a bit due to my bad english. :\ although i dont understand it in every detail i guess you were right.
if the blade was mounted that way the grip should have survived too.

further question could maybe be answered by DelTin. i found his name on a page offering reproductions of early tools, weapons and other things.

http://www.ratatoskr.de/BRSCHWER.htm


Regards, Jörg

I think you did just fine with the translation thankyou very much. That's one of my biggest beefs with Oakeshott is he'll launch into a latin or French phrase that came from a book, art, or sword inscription and then never bothers to translate the bloody thing. I know if you are well educated you should know French and Latin but sheesh I took C programming in school rather then languages...

Dear Friends,

I have had some discussion on the Austrian axe that came in the lot with the Bavarian sword and thought I would copy and past my comments:

Take a look at the axe, photographed on Tafel 24, figure 342, the book example was found at Wilhering, Dornbacher Wald.

Mayer, Eugen Friedrich. Die Axte und Beile in Osterreich. (PBF Abteilung IX, 9.Band. 1977.) Text on Page 112:
RANDLEISTENBEILE MIT BREITER, IN DER MITTE EINGEZOGENER BAHN - SONDERFORMEN
342. Wilhering, BH. Linz-Land. Oberosterreich. - Dornbacher Wald, Kurnberghang;
Depotfund vgl. Nr. 280-281. - Beil, L. 15,2 cm, B. 2,4 cm, Gew. 55g (Taf. 24, 342). - Landesmus. Linz (A 4825).

This axe is also similar to Taf. 19 figures 273-274 and all the axes of this type would be dated to Stufe Gemeinlebarn I or II. 1800-1600 BC, equivalent to Late Early Bronze Age or Early Middle Bronze Age.

I would suspect that my axe is the only one of this type in private hands and that the one held by the Linz Museum is not on display for observation by visitors. Mayer would have been given access to the storerooms.

If I sell this axe, my price would be $500., no extra charge for shipping. If you purchase the axe I will include photocopies of the pages in my book that identify and date it.

---

 Attachment: 32.5 KB