Ok i got alot of useful information on my last post about the paul chen swords, now i have a new question for those of you in the know. What do you all think of the paul chen axe line as far as quality? i have read the review posted here on the mammen axe. But what i wanted to know is have any of you ever banged away on a tree shield ect with one of the paul chen line of viking axes? i just got one and cant wait to try it out it seems solid to me but what do i honestly know. Sorry if i keep asking things that have been answered earlier on here i tried to search but i kept getting broad results and i admit to only reading 50 or so posts in the last 2 days on the topics of viking weapons.
Ones i have or had:
Mammon axe
Franchisca
Pipe hawk
Heros axe
Viking axe
Bearded viking axe
Of these all seemed perfectly useable. i have done the 2 liter bottle cutting with them all and had no problems.
The pipe hawk did have the top cap come off, but fresh epoxy fixed that.
I have broke numerous handles on the throwing franchesca but i make my own, so no biggy there.
The handles on the last two were loose, so "maybe as is stock" will need some attention. However, i love(ed) 'em all.
Mammon axe
Franchisca
Pipe hawk
Heros axe
Viking axe
Bearded viking axe
Of these all seemed perfectly useable. i have done the 2 liter bottle cutting with them all and had no problems.
The pipe hawk did have the top cap come off, but fresh epoxy fixed that.
I have broke numerous handles on the throwing franchesca but i make my own, so no biggy there.
The handles on the last two were loose, so "maybe as is stock" will need some attention. However, i love(ed) 'em all.
Thanx alex
WHen i opened the box and saw an actual hardwood shaft i was very happy. i have bought several supposed functional axes that were way to flimsy to cut kindling let alone shields. I have a great interest in swords but soemthing about an axe in my hand feels right. Maybe its just that i have had years of chopping experience hehehe
WHen i opened the box and saw an actual hardwood shaft i was very happy. i have bought several supposed functional axes that were way to flimsy to cut kindling let alone shields. I have a great interest in swords but soemthing about an axe in my hand feels right. Maybe its just that i have had years of chopping experience hehehe
As my freind put it once, "axes for me are like tatoos, highly addictive and exspensive."
He has a ton of axes now. Where i bought a few, he has a few too many...
He has a ton of axes now. Where i bought a few, he has a few too many...
| David Sanford wrote: |
| Ok i got alot of useful information on my last post about the paul chen swords, now i have a new question for those of you in the know. What do you all think of the paul chen axe line as far as quality? i have read the review posted here on the mammen axe. But what i wanted to know is have any of you ever banged away on a tree shield ect with one of the paul chen line of viking axes? i just got one and cant wait to try it out it seems solid to me but what do i honestly know. Sorry if i keep asking things that have been answered earlier on here i tried to search but i kept getting broad results and i admit to only reading 50 or so posts in the last 2 days on the topics of viking weapons. |
I've one of the two foot hafted hanwei viking axes. Head and shaft are very solid and it does cut like an axe. That said, I suspect the head may, if anything, be a bit over engineered. It may be a little thick and heavy (but this is compared with looking at corroded originals so I could easily be wrong). It wasn't sharp when I got it, but I sharpened it. The metal wasn't soft on the edge. The shaft on mine was a bit twisted. Not a big handling problem, provided you remember it, but I should probably re haft it one day.
Geoff
If you want a nice axe get an A&A. I have a Danish Axe that is very nice, and not overbuilt like so many reproductions. Axes meant for hewing people tend to be much thinner and lighter than wood cutting tools and possess different dynamic handling. Winlass and Paul Chen make sword and axe shaped things not weapons.
Even A&A axes may not be ideal in terms of authenticity- I have yet to work this out. It seems that historical axe blades were comprised of atleast two different materials- one iron or low-carbon steel for the body and a higher carbon edge welded on. All A&A axes are homogeneous steel. If you want quality it costs. I'm really not sure why folks even mess with these low end reproductions. I'm sorry I had so say it.
Jeremy
Even A&A axes may not be ideal in terms of authenticity- I have yet to work this out. It seems that historical axe blades were comprised of atleast two different materials- one iron or low-carbon steel for the body and a higher carbon edge welded on. All A&A axes are homogeneous steel. If you want quality it costs. I'm really not sure why folks even mess with these low end reproductions. I'm sorry I had so say it.
Jeremy
peopel mess with these things because they are poor. I have about 1000 dollars a year not spent on bills so that has to be spread out and used acordingly so i look for bargins whenever i can. i would love to spend over 300 dollars for a sword or over 100 for a good axe head but the truth is i have a family so i cant be selfish. I really respect high end pieces and im sure they have awesome dynamic properties that low end stuff doesnt have but i see the chen as functional. It may not be as light as it could be but im sure ill cut more wood then men and it can defen do that.
| Jeremy V. Krause wrote: |
| If you want a nice axe get an A&A. I have a Danish Axe that is very nice, and not overbuilt like so many reproductions. Axes meant for hewing people tend to be much thinner and lighter than wood cutting tools and possess different dynamic handling. Winlass and Paul Chen make sword and axe shaped things not weapons.
Even A&A axes may not be ideal in terms of authenticity- I have yet to work this out. It seems that historical axe blades were comprised of atleast two different materials- one iron or low-carbon steel for the body and a higher carbon edge welded on. All A&A axes are homogeneous steel. If you want quality it costs. I'm really not sure why folks even mess with these low end reproductions. I'm sorry I had so say it. Jeremy |
Mr Krause
Interesting that you should mention the two different materials combined for axe heads. The low end reproduction that I referred to in my previous post showed distinct diffferences in the steel between the edge (about 1cm or so) and the rest of the head. These showed up more when I was sharpening and then re smoothing the surface. I can't say for certain that the head is made of different materials, but that was the first thought that struck me when I noticed the different appearances of the two areas. That point aside, I agree that the A&A axes all look to have specs. more true to probable type. As for the 'why' of purchasing low end reproductions, in my case it was easy availability, low price and 'good enough' at the time.
regards
Geoff
Geoff
I noticed that also when you look at the cutting edhe vs the rest of the head it may just be the finish thou. I know that soem of the period pieces just had a hard steely edge put on to an iron head. But obviously this would be cost prohibitive in a chen so i doubt that it is a mix of the two in thier axes. Although i have also herd peopel in the know talking of all steel axes in historical times. I also agree right price right time. As it is this is my one xmas gift from the wife and i already opened it and put it in my cabinet to admire heheheh it begs to be used.
I noticed that also when you look at the cutting edhe vs the rest of the head it may just be the finish thou. I know that soem of the period pieces just had a hard steely edge put on to an iron head. But obviously this would be cost prohibitive in a chen so i doubt that it is a mix of the two in thier axes. Although i have also herd peopel in the know talking of all steel axes in historical times. I also agree right price right time. As it is this is my one xmas gift from the wife and i already opened it and put it in my cabinet to admire heheheh it begs to be used.
| David Sanford wrote: |
| Geoff
I noticed that also when you look at the cutting edhe vs the rest of the head it may just be the finish thou. I know that soem of the period pieces just had a hard steely edge put on to an iron head. But obviously this would be cost prohibitive in a chen so i doubt that it is a mix of the two in thier axes. Although i have also herd peopel in the know talking of all steel axes in historical times. I also agree right price right time. As it is this is my one xmas gift from the wife and i already opened it and put it in my cabinet to admire heheheh it begs to be used. |
Hi David
I expect your correct. The cost probably would be prohibitive on a piece of this price. Whatever the cause is though, it does go a bit beyond the immediate surface (because I made rather a mess of my sharpening and ended up removing that original surface). I've just had another look at the item in question. The edge appears to be of a slightly darker colour. The boundary between it and the lighter part is not a completely straight line, so I may, I suppose, be looking at a 'hamon' like effect of differential cooling leading to different crystalline structure (and thus appearance) of the steel.
Being a gift from someone important does rather add to the importance of a piece. My most valuable sword was made for me out of cardboard, tape and tinfoil by my daughter.
regards
Geoff
Geoff tahst a great story all my daughter does is destory things at this age. Shes only just about to turn 3 her mom just took her out trick or treating a while ago . I cant wait for her to grow up thou so far in the last month shes cost me over 1000 in broken computers ouch that one killed me especially since i sold all my rifles to buy it for my wife a month earlier money that could ahve well be spent on an albion sword hence whi i have to settle for chen for the time being.
Hi all,
My own personal research has suggested the following with respect to the vast majority of original viking age axes (of all styles):
1) They were worth a fraction of the cost of even a mediocre sword of the time.
2) They were often intended for general purpose use and doubled as a weapon.
3) Along with the spear, they were the most common weapons to be found in the hands of the average viking warrior.
4) Terms like "beard axe" etc. describe a general style and should not be taken as an exacting specification. In the beard axe style, excavated example show considerable variation in side taper profile, overall dimensions edge style. Moreover, the vast majority of known originals are in extremely poor condition; they are heavily corroded, and often badly damaged. Thus, it would be difficult to make specific statements about how an "original" should handle or appear. Even more importantly, excavated originals represent a minute percentage of the total number produced -- it is therefore fairly unwise to make statements about how the "average" axe appeared and handled. To do so would, from a statistical point of view, put on extremely thin ice.
5) While it is true that there were high quality (often elaborately decorated) prestige pieces produced, the majority appear to be of utility grade. In contrast to a sword, any competent smith of the period (or even today for that matter) could produce a perfectly servicable axe head with little difficulty -- and do so in fairly short order.
Consider this too: apart from style and intent, even a utility grade $30 wood axe from your local hardware store is a perfectly adequate tool that will perform its intended job as expected, and if taken care of, can last a lifetime. It is also true that there are very expensive professional lumberjacking axes manufactured that cost many hundreds of dollars -- and some "competition" grade axes can cost in the thousands. However, such high end pieces do not represent the average axe of today.
Of the number of the reproduction axes I have personally handled -- including Paul Chen example -- I have found them to be, on the whole, perfectly servicable weapons / tools of a quality that are -- at least hypothetically -- similar to those of the period pieces they represent.
When all of this is taken into consideration, I cannot see any reason to expect to pay anything more than $100 for a good servicable production beard axe. If you want to have a smith make a custom piece for you, then you will of course pay through the nose for it, but given the nature of the tool/weapon, I cannot see any advantage to going this rout unless you want an "art" piece.
My own personal research has suggested the following with respect to the vast majority of original viking age axes (of all styles):
1) They were worth a fraction of the cost of even a mediocre sword of the time.
2) They were often intended for general purpose use and doubled as a weapon.
3) Along with the spear, they were the most common weapons to be found in the hands of the average viking warrior.
4) Terms like "beard axe" etc. describe a general style and should not be taken as an exacting specification. In the beard axe style, excavated example show considerable variation in side taper profile, overall dimensions edge style. Moreover, the vast majority of known originals are in extremely poor condition; they are heavily corroded, and often badly damaged. Thus, it would be difficult to make specific statements about how an "original" should handle or appear. Even more importantly, excavated originals represent a minute percentage of the total number produced -- it is therefore fairly unwise to make statements about how the "average" axe appeared and handled. To do so would, from a statistical point of view, put on extremely thin ice.
5) While it is true that there were high quality (often elaborately decorated) prestige pieces produced, the majority appear to be of utility grade. In contrast to a sword, any competent smith of the period (or even today for that matter) could produce a perfectly servicable axe head with little difficulty -- and do so in fairly short order.
Consider this too: apart from style and intent, even a utility grade $30 wood axe from your local hardware store is a perfectly adequate tool that will perform its intended job as expected, and if taken care of, can last a lifetime. It is also true that there are very expensive professional lumberjacking axes manufactured that cost many hundreds of dollars -- and some "competition" grade axes can cost in the thousands. However, such high end pieces do not represent the average axe of today.
Of the number of the reproduction axes I have personally handled -- including Paul Chen example -- I have found them to be, on the whole, perfectly servicable weapons / tools of a quality that are -- at least hypothetically -- similar to those of the period pieces they represent.
When all of this is taken into consideration, I cannot see any reason to expect to pay anything more than $100 for a good servicable production beard axe. If you want to have a smith make a custom piece for you, then you will of course pay through the nose for it, but given the nature of the tool/weapon, I cannot see any advantage to going this rout unless you want an "art" piece.
| Jeremy V. Krause wrote: |
| If you want a nice axe get an A&A. I have a Danish Axe that is very nice, and not overbuilt like so many reproductions. Axes meant for hewing people tend to be much thinner and lighter than wood cutting tools and possess different dynamic handling. Winlass and Paul Chen make sword and axe shaped things not weapons.
Even A&A axes may not be ideal in terms of authenticity- I have yet to work this out. It seems that historical axe blades were comprised of atleast two different materials- one iron or low-carbon steel for the body and a higher carbon edge welded on. All A&A axes are homogeneous steel. If you want quality it costs. I'm really not sure why folks even mess with these low end reproductions. I'm sorry I had so say it. Jeremy |
I used to have one of those A&A Dane axes, and it was a nice piece. I never really bonded with it, however, and eventually ended up giving it to a friend who admired it. It was a good weapon, and very well made, but I would have preferred one, in that style, with a welded-on edge. When I ordered it, I talked to Chris Poor about it for a while, and he actually warned me about how lethally thin and sharp the edge was. And indeed, it was thin and sharp. Against someone unarmored, it would be devastating.
The really good thing about the "lower-end" axes in production is that they are, for the most part, cheap and utilitarian. They remind me, a lot, of the those ubiquitous axes of the past that doubled as both tool and weapon. I have only one of the Paul Chen axes. It is not perfect, but it is pretty handy. Not quite as robust as a wood-axe, but not quite as light and thin as a pure flesh-cleaver. As a compromise tool/weapon, it is hard to beat.
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