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Posts: 740 Location: Netherlands

Mon 16 Oct, 2006 2:36 pm

Bronze age sword casting!

This weekend I did my first serious attempts at casting bronze swords, using only methods and materials of the bronze age. Beyond my expectations, I got two complete swords out of 6 attempts! I know there have been some partially succesful attempts by others, though as far as I'm aware none start to finish using only bronze age techniques, and casting swords with the correct shape, weight and balance. The swords aren't perfect yet, as the surfaces are quite rough in some areas, and one of the swords has shrinkage porosity in the hilt. But they can be made into servicable swords, with some esthetical flaws. But I've got a pretty good idea how to improve on this in future casts.

Full view of the swords straight from the mould:
[ Linked Image ]

Close up of the hilts:
[ Linked Image ]

More information and photos of the process can be found here:
http://1500bc.com/bronzeage/bronzes/nf_carps_...d_eng.html

And a photo of one of the castings:
http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=269290906&size=l

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Geoff Wood

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Posts: 634 Location: UK

Mon 16 Oct, 2006 6:29 pm

Congratulations! Great success. So, are the stone (well, they look like stone to me) moulds that I've seen in museums not genuine bronze age, or was there more than one technique for moulds in use in that period?
Geoff

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Jonathan Hopkins

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Posts: 1,377

Mon 16 Oct, 2006 6:31 pm

Thanks, that's really fantastic, Jeroen! What's the next step?

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Jeroen Zuiderwijk

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Posts: 740 Location: Netherlands

Tue 17 Oct, 2006 3:22 am

Geoff Wood wrote:

There were multiple techniques. Stone was mostly used in the earlier bronze age, but it was gradually (though not entirely) replaced by clay moulds to allow more complex shapes. The bronze shrinks when it cools, if the bronze will grab the mould, it will damage it. For clay moulds that's not a problem, as they are for one cast only, but for stone moulds that's a problem. That's probably why they moved to clay when swords got more complex.

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Jeroen Zuiderwijk

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Posts: 740 Location: Netherlands

Tue 17 Oct, 2006 3:23 am

J.G. Hopkins wrote:

Thanks, that's really fantastic, Jeroen! What's the next step?

More and better swords :) But that will have to wait until next season, as my casting season is nearly finished.

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Mikko Kuusirati

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Posts: 1,084 Location: Finland

Tue 17 Oct, 2006 4:21 am

Jeroen Zuiderwijk wrote:

J.G. Hopkins wrote:

Thanks, that's really fantastic, Jeroen! What's the next step?

More and better swords :) But that will have to wait until next season, as my casting season is nearly finished.

But what about with these babies in particular? Cleaning up, polishing, furniture...? :)

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Kirk Lee Spencer

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Posts: 820 Location: Texas

Tue 17 Oct, 2006 4:48 am

Great work Jeroen!!!

Thanks so much for sharing your enthusiasm....

Makes me want to go out an melt some bronze :D

ks

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Steve Grisetti

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Posts: 1,812 Location: Washington DC metro area, USA

Tue 17 Oct, 2006 4:10 pm

Very impressive, Jeroen. Please continue to keep us informed on your progress with these pieces.

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Jeroen Zuiderwijk

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Posts: 740 Location: Netherlands

Wed 18 Oct, 2006 4:34 am

Mikko Kuusirati wrote:

Jeroen Zuiderwijk wrote:

J.G. Hopkins wrote:

Thanks, that's really fantastic, Jeroen! What's the next step?

More and better swords :) But that will have to wait until next season, as my casting season is nearly finished.

But what about with these babies in particular? Cleaning up, polishing, furniture...? :)

Ah, I'll keep one (the first one) in cast condition. The second one I'll be finishing with modern tools, as the surface is too rough to do it authentically. I haven't decided on the hilt covers and pommel material yet, but it will be either horn or wood.

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Jean Thibodeau

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Posts: 8,310 Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada

Wed 18 Oct, 2006 6:22 am

Jeroen Zuiderwijk wrote:

Mikko Kuusirati wrote:

Jeroen Zuiderwijk wrote:

J.G. Hopkins wrote:

Thanks, that's really fantastic, Jeroen! What's the next step?

More and better swords :) But that will have to wait until next season, as my casting season is nearly finished.

But what about with these babies in particular? Cleaning up, polishing, furniture...? :)

Very interesting and I'm looking forward to see it finished. Are you going to work harden the edge and see how sharp you can get a bronze sword and how well the edge holds up to light cutting ? I'm thinking more of edge wear through abrasion than dulling when doing heavy cutting.

It depends on your objectives: Mostly aesthetic, functional weapon or a bit of both.

Sort of wondering if it's true that a hardened bronze sword could be superior to an early iron age sword of low carbon or hit & miss heat treating closer to pure iron or very mild steel: Better edge holding for the high quality bronze sword ?

Oh, how flexible or shock resistance can a bronze sword be ? i.e. NOT brittle ! I would guess the type of bronze alloy might make a big difference. If very brittle I would think hammer hardening wouldn't be practical ? The work hardened bronze might become brittle as well as harder if one overdoes the hammering ?

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Jeroen Zuiderwijk

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Posts: 740 Location: Netherlands

Thu 19 Oct, 2006 4:26 am

Jean Thibodeau wrote:

Very interesting and I'm looking forward to see it finished. Are you going to work harden the edge and see how sharp you can get a bronze sword and how well the edge holds up to light cutting ?

I've got a pretty good idea of how bronze hardens and functions by making and using bronze knives, axes etc. I've also done some tests on (non authentically cast) bronze swords to see how they hold under edge on edge contact. You get nicks a few mm into the edge, but that's about it. The bronze hardens on impact, and a work-hardened edge does not deform all that much. The damage also matches the originals I've seen closely.

Jean Thibodeau wrote:

I'm thinking more of edge wear through abrasion than dulling when doing heavy cutting.

Edge wear is not that much an issue on swords, as they don't have to cut that much during their life. But I've been using bronze knives for several years, and they hold up quite well, as long as you can live with the edge being more dull most of the time compared to a steel knife. For most of the jobs I use the knife, that's not a problem.

Jean Thibodeau wrote:

It depends on your objectives: Mostly aesthetic, functional weapon or a bit of both.

Everything I make is made to be fully functional. So cutting edges get hardened and sharpened. My interest is to learn more about the artifacts they made, so every aspect from production to function is important to me to get them as close to the originals as possible.

Jean Thibodeau wrote:

Sort of wondering if it's true that a hardened bronze sword could be superior to an early iron age sword of low carbon or hit & miss heat treating closer to pure iron or very mild steel: Better edge holding for the high quality bronze sword ?

From what I've seen, bronze cuts through iron and low carbon steels, as the iron/steel doesn't workharden as much. But steel comes in such a range of qualities, even in the early iron age that you can't say that one is better then the other. But I think on average, they didn't differ that much.

Jean Thibodeau wrote:

Oh, how flexible or shock resistance can a bronze sword be ? i.e. NOT brittle ! I would guess the type of bronze alloy might make a big difference. If very brittle I would think hammer hardening wouldn't be practical ? The work hardened bronze might become brittle as well as harder if one overdoes the hammering ?

If you overdo the hammering, it cracks. So they made sure to stay below that. Only the edges were workhardened, so the sword (unless there are casting flaws) won't break under impact. Bronze can be fine-tuned easily to make it as hard as possible, without making it too brittle. For the most part, they seemed to have used the right alloy for the job. I think one of the most common failures would have been the sword bending out of shape. That can be straightened out again, though after a few times the bronze will break. There's a lot of variation in swords though. There are some smaller swords that have paper thin edges f.e. That makes them extremely fragile, but also very sharp. But there are also swords that are very robust in design.

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