I find that the weight of gauntlets seem to have a big effect on handling of swords due in part to the size ( Bulk ) and in part in arm fatigue and speed of motion. (Casual observation not extensive experience or practice. )

This effect seems more pronounced than with arm armour because the gauntlets a way out at the end, so the effect being that 1 pound on the hand can have the same effect as 3 or 4 pounds higher up.

Part of this is getting used to the weight I assume. Also I can see the gauntlets being put on for the heaviest
( Forgive the pun ) fighting in the same way that a great helm might be used mostly on horseback for a charge & melee.

If too tired one might take off the gauntlets and take their chances loosing fingers.

Oh, as an example of handling: My A & A Black Prince has what is a generous length of grip bare handed but with the gauntlets the grip feels a bit cramped and to make it work the second hand has to take hold the pommel. The Black Prince with gauntlets on feel more like a onehander than a hand & a half. Oh, with my Black Prince the use of gauntlets means that using both hand on the grip would be less important if fighting in armour and against armour since the second hand might be used mostly for halfswording ?

My much bigger A & A Twohander or my Pollaxe or spears should not be a problem as far as room for both hands is concerned.

So, I'm addressing this mostly to those who are writing books about fighting with the longsword and also train others, as well those who seriously study and practice fighting in armour.

A secondary question would be how the extra weight of hand and arm armour affects the handling of a sword when cutting ? The extra mass even if not coming from the blade would still contribute some momentum to the cut ?

Hey Jean

Good questions. The weight and size of gauntlets can vary a bit especially when comparing many modern pieces to the historical. The gauntlets of old where often very light and form fitting. While pieces today are often made with protection and safety uppermost in the mind and thus can be bulky and heavy, sometimes very heavy compared to originals.

Best
Craig

Craig;

Yes, I sort of assumed that gauntlets that are made for every weekend bashing would have to be heavier than the originals.

With real armour in period you still tried to avoid getting hit as much as possible and the armour if damaged would have done it's job as long as you came out of battle alive and with all your original body parts: It could and would be made lighter not being expected to survive often repeated abuse without repair or replacement.

Maybe we should compare modern armour usage: If one takes a bullet or bullets on one's Kevlar vest and survives without serious injury the vest has done it's job ! But one would not risk using it again as it's integrity would be compromised and one couldn't count on it to stop more bullets if they hits the same places: Such a vest would be retired from use.

In the same way one doesn't wear modern body armour and practice being shot at every weekend with real bullets. :eek: :eek: :eek: Maybe paintball practice but not real bullets.

HMMMMM: Knights when practising their skills would they use their fighting armour or just maybe just gambison and rebated weapons ? I doubt they would use their serious armour for repeated practice ! The exception maybe the very early Jousting that was just barely more friendly than a real battle. Or, repairing armour would be considered normal after every use?

Getting back to the original question: Assuming gauntlets of historical weight how would they affect technique and cutting?

If you trained regularly with the gauntlets, the muscles in your arms would become stronger and accommodate the added weight. "Train how you fight."

I fight with gauntlets when I use anything more than wasters. Yes, gauntlets do affect your technique at first... when you get used to them, though, there's not a world of difference I've found between wearing them and not wearing them. Naturally they are a little more constricting, but if you have good quality gauntlets, with a little practice you hardly know that you're wearing them.

One thing to consider, though: Even in the late 15th century, when armour was at it's peak on the battlefield, not everyone wore gauntlets. In fact, many wore "demi-gauntlets", which only protected the wrist, but chose to leave the fingers and back of the hand uncovered. This probably was a choice of juggling between mobitlity, cost and acceptable risk.

Bill;

I'm sure yours are somewhat lighter than mine so having them on or off doesn't feel very different and getting hit on the fingers a few times would be very motivational to get used to the weight. :eek:

A lot of modern ones are overbuilt so that they won't have to be repaired or replaced too often.

But bottom line I defer to your experience that practice would make all the difference: it just feels weird initially.

Well, if anyone is having a really Really hard time weilding a sword while using gaunlets,(or if you truly prefer a more dexteritous syle) you could always try a Milanese style gauntlet, they sacrifice a bit of defense, but still seem to be fairly protective. http://www.by-the-sword.com/acatalog/images/cd-407b.JPG

Those Milanese gauntlets are very interesting: Always good to see designs one has not seen before.

( Edited: Just got an accurate weight of 2 pounds each for my gauntlets. )

Oh, my impressions are very much what I observed on first trying gauntlets and handling a sword with them so I wouldn't call it having difficulty yet. :D

The extra weight / inertia is noticeable but getting used to the weight is just practice. Still, even when fully used to the extra weight one would have to be faster without and would tire more slowly bare handed.

But then wearing no armour makes you faster also, everything else being equal, but one chooses to wear armour because it' s advantages outweigh the reduced mobility in most cases.

One thing that might be useful, apart from practising using the gauntlet, wearing wrist weights a few hours a day might help endurance: Strength is not the problem as the weight is not that great but even a small weight can feel like a ton after a few minutes.

Lets just say that anything new can feel weird at first.

Not sure if there is anything more that would be useful to know ? More input from experienced people might still be useful if they think something important as not been touched on yet.

C. : Welcome to this site to another Canadian. :cool:

I trained with huge gloves with lead sewn onto them. After they're gone, the sword is as light as a feather and mail gauntlets not much more. Beats fighting without fingers (blood makes the grip slick)

My gauntlets are 15th c. Gothic gaunts. I find that although they permit some wrist motion, they are restrictive in how I can move my wrists. This makes some things (Longpoint for example) impossible to do the same way I would do them without gauntlets. They just don't have the range of motion for it.

Hmmm... an interesting topic.

My experience with gauntlets is that it's not the weight that causes problems in handling your sword, but the added bulk / movement restrictions caused by the gauntlets.

I use a pair of Vladimir Cervenka plate gauntlets.
The ability to move the wrist is pretty good, compared to some other plate gauntlets i've tried on. However the greater size of the hands and wrists often causes problems for me.
For example turning the blade to execute a zwerchhau, in often impeded by the crossguard getting stuck at one of the plates of the gauntlet for a moment, which requires me to grip the sword farther away from the crossguard.
The greater circumfence of the wrists makes every Hut with crossed wrists ( right plow, left oxen... ) more difficult and even requires me to adjust my normal long edge strikes a little.

My overall conclusion is that gauntlets are a very important part of armor when fighting as the fingers tend to get hit quite often ( especially when trying to catch the opponents blade with your strong/ crossguard from the bind or while executing meisterhaue ), but do also restrict sword handling.
For these reasons I usually use thin leather gloves for light drills and lacrosse gloves for Blossfechten sparring, while only using my plate gloves occasionally as not to loose feel for them.

(Edited for typo )

Usefulness of gauntlets might vary a lot depending on design, bulk and quality combined with sword types ?

I don't see using gauntlets with some weapons like a bow or crossbow or where fine finger movements are involved.

Gauntlets use seems almost mandatory with full plate armour even if just for aesthetic reasons: I wonder how often the gauntlets were taken off for better weapons handling ? I could thrust my Wisby type gauntlet under my belt if I wasn't wearing them but what would one do with the more rigid hourglass one's ? Give them to a page to hold ? Hang them from the sword belt somehow ? Leave them in storage packed away ?

There is also selective use of gauntlets by only partly armoured fighters who would use what they could afford or combinations of pieces of armour that was available or specific to the type of weapons / fighting they would be doing.

Oh, gauntlets would seem good with pollarm use.

Weight and bulk as well as fit make a big difference on usability I think and like anything some things feel awkward until you use them for a while.

Just of the few practical considerations when taking off some part of one armour for a respite or convenience ?

Almost a separate topic there. :lol:

Interesting discussion, I´ve ben locking for diffrent kind of gauntlets to use (ca 1450-1500). In the followin link from "Historiska värlar" (Sweden) jointed half gauntlets can be seen. http://www.historiska.se/histvarld/drakter/so...ndskar.htm
I also recal seein this type of gauntlet in "The medieval soldier" used by two men fighting with bastard swords. I belive (or want to belive :)) that this kind of gaunlet would give reasonably good protection, and in the samt time alow for rather good movement. This is my asumtions and no har facts. The problem is that I have not seen this in paintings etc...mayby I wasn't locking for it or it's rare on paintings. Mayby this type more common from surviving gauntlets... On the other hand in the text from "Historiska världar" it is said thath this type of gauntlet was rather common. Well thats just some thoughts....
/Kim

I think that the mitten gauntlet was used in the 15th and 16th centuries. Can't comment about weight or handling though.

I use Franl L'Archeveque's Milanese gauntlets (the mitten ones) when fighting with steel blades. Of course it is different than fencing with leather gloves but I do not have any problems with that. The gauntles were made to fit my hands, so I don,t have any "bulk" feeling. But anyway, as teh movements performed in full armour (mostly half guard) are quite different than ones executed (the Liechtenauer way) it is difficult to compare. Anyway, in non armored cobat if you have a good thechnque you don't really need gauntlets.