I have been working on another do it yourself (DIY) scabbard for my Albion Sempach.

I should receive leather (for the suspension straps) in about a week, and would like input from the forum on what longsword suspensions people find to be o.k. historically, but also more of a favorite in terms of functionality. I have two questions I am sure someone will have a good answer for.

1) In many cases there were 3 straps (often two straps at mouth/locket area attachment) in longsword suspensions even though there were usually just two attachment points at the waist belt and the scabbard. Is there a functional problem with just 2 straps? So far I am planning on something pretty similar to the Brescia scabbard. http://www.albion-swords.com/swords/johnsson/...bbard.htm.

2) Would adjustable buckles on suspension straps be just plain wrong historically? Christian Fletcher’s web site has an image (ATrim Danish two handed model?) showing an adjustable and detachable suspension concept. This appeals a lot to me since one could switch a favorite suspension between several scabbards. http://www.christianfletcher.com/Catalog/Scab...bards.html

The scabbard is supposed to be my imagined idea of an antique Hospitaller’s scabbard, based on the sword typology (T2) and period activity at the defense of Rhodes. I literally beat the leather with a sledge hammer (while wet and wadded up in a towel) but didn’t get it as distressed as I wanted. It is an inch or so longer than the sword, and a brass nail has been driven through the back side of the “moat sale” chape (cut down shorter than as Albion sold it, and wire brushed to give it a duller worn look.) I kept this one lean, and think I am at the limit of what I can do while incorporating substantial quality wool lining and leather materials.


Finished weight (no straps or belt) ~ 14.5 ounces (.41 kilograms)
Maximum Thickness ~ 1” at mouth, embossed / simulated locket area (wool turned down over mouth to prevent it from coming loose at the mouth opening.
Average Thickness – ¾” (19 mm.)
Breakdown of average thickness;
 Cavity required for blade …. ……………………..¼” (34%)
 Compressed wool (~1/16” wall) lining …………~1/8” (17%)
 Covering (2/3 ounce calf) .................a little under 1/8” (15%)
 Wood (1/8” wall laminated, passed 210 lb “balance beam/step test”) ~1/4” (34%)

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I think a scabbard similar to the Brescia's would be too late for the Sempach. All of the clearly identified members of that family that Oakeshott shows date from prior to 1400. There is another example that looks like a similar sword, but the pic makes it hard to determine if the pommel fits the type. That mystery sword dates from 1420. The Brescia is later than that.

Looking at effigies from the turn of the 15th century, many people still wore those wide plaque belts so common in the latter stages of the 14th century. Swords were suspended either directly from those or from a single strand, separate sword belt. Once we get past around 1410, we see fewer plaque belts and more simplr single-strap designs.

Here are some effigies from gothiceye.com:

Circa 1405
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Circa 1407
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1409
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1412
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1416
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circa 1425
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While I can't offer much regarding scabbards, I can touch upon the topic of longsword suspensions with a little bit of confidence.

My personal favorite suspension type can be upon page 87 of "A Knight and His Armor" by Ewart Oakeshott. I've also seen it somewhere upon Albion's website. The picture below is taken from "A Knight and His Armor".

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The suspension consists of two seperate main pieces. A simple belt of about 1/2 width with a ring or buckle located at the center of the back and about 6 inches of extra punched lether at the belt end. The second section consists of two strips of leather which are wrapped around the scabbard in two places using a special technique which insures that the scabbard cannot slide, as well as assuring that the "ties" won't come undone. I've used this system with both a longsword and rapier without any problems.

Here is a picture of the suspension upon my MRL Longsword.

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Thank you greatly! I was about to fear it necessary to throw away a decent looking scabbard as being completely out of period.

I have some reservations about the classic effigy portrait thing.

At least one period contemporary stated;
"The Black Prince always came to battle armed with a massive sword. The sword was of uncommon proportions and exceedingly long grip, as were the swords of his three favorite bodyguards." I had the source bookmarked last year, but lost it with a hard drive crash....
His relative John of Gaunt reportedly trained extensively (large amounts of correspondence, mentions of famous masters, and payment records left behind to prove it too..) with him as he grew older..and they were famous for seeking out the latest style of swords, armour and techniques. The entire effigy thing is completely ludicrous in at least this one example. Some effigies even clearly show armour from periods 50 years after the subject died (no telling how long before the effigy was commissioned and completed...) I suppose that with art, we need a large sample from many sources to gain confidence.


I am an average 6' tall (182 cm) person of moderatly heavy build. My leg inseam is pretty average and there is absolutely no plausible way a longsword of classic 36" blade dimension and low slung belt can be worn exactly as shown in those effigy illustrations. I tend to subscribe to the idea of an "Arming sword" (regardless of what they called it) being a different model sword worn publically for dress and on occasions when a knight might spend most of the day on foot in uniform (not a field of combat, but armour on for whatever reason.)

I admit it is workable to the same degree shown in the effigies Chad. But I need some slant or the chape will drag the ground with the slightest bending of the knees. This seems to be the reality in the effigies, as if many have to stand upon tip toes on a rock to keep the sword tip off the ground.

I noticed Ralph, Lord Stafford c. 1347 really looks to just have his sword slipped through his belt at an angle with no scabbard.

I come at all of this from the perspective of someone who will probably not mount the horse while re-enacting (I will with intent to pen a calf on a well trained quarter horse though.) That could change things a bit tactically (to my way of thinking.)

Is there no possibility of different suspension for different settings? As I said originally, it just needs to be "o.k." historically, but functional.

I have been contemplating how to comfortably wear longswords on my person for some time as well. I usually only wear them with my group at Renaissance Faires and when doing demo's with my fencing instructor. His recommendation is to wear the sword low on the hip, to the back, and to turn out the hip when drawing. A carry system like the one in Ewart Oakeshott illustration looks to be about right to me, but with the sword a bit more back toward the rear.

After some experimentation I think a three point suspension would work well, but a two point suspension would be all you need really.

I have some unique problems when carrying that historically probably were not a problem. Namely sitting down with a sword on your belt. :-) I find that unless you have the right chair or comfortable bench it doesn't work very well. I get the impression that Medieval and Renaissance men probably didn't sit down that much with swords unless on horses. However we modern people tend to have difficulty standing up for long periods of time...especially if you have had knee issues like I have.

So my ideal suspension system would have ready clips or buckles on the suspension system to "detach" the sword from its belt for those periods of prolonged sitting that come up when in costume at events. It would also be nice to simply clip on or buckle on the appropriate weapon for the appropriate demo using the same belt suspension system too.

I know it isn't period or historically accurate, but then again as much as we can try, we never can fully live in historical times either. External inconveniences (like former 20th century affictions and injuries) do play a part in modifying our intended behaviors when undertaking historical renactments or activities to some greater extent on some of us. Therefore modifying equipment when necessary can be a consideration, even if it isn't historically accurate.

Sorry Chad Sonderborg, there are two Chad's in the first responses.

I attempted to thank you, not ignore you, for posting the alternative harness (with a reference and a date that appears to be reasonably close to the range), even if period might be disputable or if it actually was very uncomomon at the time the reference illustration shows.

Chad Arrow,

I was wondering if you own and wear any typical longswords (roughly 36" long blade) in a scabbard from time to time. If so, do you actually let it hang pretty straight up and down as shown in the effigies?

I ask because I also figured something that was not really woven through the scabbard covering but had roughly the look of the Albion Solingen scabbard would appear reasonably authentic, but possibly be removable. It might also hang at an angle depending on the specific spacing of front and rear strap points. I placed my lower risers with the idea that I might do a variety of suspensions, and possibly even baldric wear if the suspensions were reasonably easy to change. http://www.albion-swords.com/swords/johnsson/solingenscabbard.htm

This seems like the appropriate place to ask a question I have about what the Inner Bailey calls the Swordbelt of the Circle, as seen here on their website http://www.theinnerbailey.com/swordbelts.htm

I have not been able to find the original Flemish painting nor can I comment on the accuracy of the Inner Bailey's reproduction, but I am wondering what anyone knows about this design in general? It seems to be very practical and in the correct time frame for Jared and myself. I am thinking of getting one for my Albion Mercenary home made scabbard project till I get my "real" one from Russ Ellis.

Some of the gothiceye.com funerary depictions seem to show a "double wrap" illustration where a belt goes all of the way around the waist, but the scabbard has straps drooping down lower. With many of the previously posted pictures of integrally woven belt/ scabbard designs (usually just two straps trailing away from the scabbard), it is not obvious to me how this variation would be accomplished unless there were some additional straps or a seperate waist belt involved. If anyone has a home made period version or a good "photo" illustration of something that explains this "period suspension", I would appreciate it.


I covered my scabbards with the intention that I did not really wish to slit the basic covering (weave suspension in and out of the covering.) This may be a fettish that I will have to abandon. The Albion Solingen scabbard picture gave me hope that I could emulate a woven look, without slotting the basic scabbard cover. I also figure, one could criss-cross the top/ mouth suspension strips down the scabbard, toward the lower strap, twice instead of once, to adjust the lower back strap position to a point further down. This would help it hang at an angle better (less tension around waist.)