I have had the pleasure of getting to extensively handle and attempt to abuse the new 1433 from Angus Trim, and I must say, of all the sword that I have had the pleasure of handling this one simply put takes the cake..
The basic facts about this sword.
Weight: 3lbs 6 ½ oz.
Length: over all 45 5/8” blade: 34 7/8
Handle length: 8”
Cross width: 8”
Point of balance: 5” from cross
Center of percussion: 21” from cross
Blade width at cross: 2 3/8”
Blade width 4” from point 1 11/32”
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/bossqwjw/Picture257.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/bossqwjw/Picture254.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/bossqwjw/Picture252.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/bossqwjw/Picture253.jpg
We were sent this sword by Angus, to test and see if under use, this sword would hold up and not loose an edge. well this sword survived everything we threw at it and kept right on cutting. Upon initial inspection I found this sword to be handy, very tip lively and remarkably quick in the turning and winding. The sharpness was a concern, this sword has a very fine sharp edge, at first but after some tough cutting our concern quickly went away.
We first took this sword to the cutting stand and cut 40 or so light targets such as milk jugs and coke bottles. Needless to say the sharp edge allowed for some very easy cutting on these light targets. I even managed to cut a few coke bottles two and three times.
After these we started moving to something a little harder, coconuts. This Sword easily cut 4 or 5 coconuts with ease and showed no damage to the blade at all. I have never really understood the problem with cutting coconuts; they just seem to cut for a few inches and then just explode.
Next we moved onto the main course PIG SHOULDER. My wife went to the local slaughter house and got a couple of pork shoulders specially ordered just for this cutting session. We explained to the guy what we wanted and he was more than happy to shave the meat off the shoulders to get it about as thick as the meat on a person.
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/bossqwjw/P3170273.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/bossqwjw/P3170274.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/bossqwjw/P3170276.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/bossqwjw/P3170277.jpg
at first we took it kind of easy on it, just giving some half power tip and a few cuts at the cop, just to see what would happen to the edge, ( I have had trouble with sword edges and bone before).
We then moved to some full power shots and covered the pork with tee shirt to see how protective it could be,
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/bossqwjw/P3170279.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/bossqwjw/P3170280.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/bossqwjw/P3170281.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/bossqwjw/P3170282.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/bossqwjw/P3170283.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/bossqwjw/P3170284.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/bossqwjw/P3170285.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/bossqwjw/P3170286.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/bossqwjw/P3170287.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/bossqwjw/P3170290.jpg
Well needless to say the tee shirt still allowed some pretty terrible cuts as can be seen from the pics above.
Next we covered the second pork shoulder in denim padding
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/bossqwjw/P3170299.jpg
The next series of strikes were full force, and intent, with three, four and five strikes
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/bossqwjw/P3170307.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/bossqwjw/P3170306.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/bossqwjw/P3170308.jpg
One such strike cut thru the ball of the hip
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/bossqwjw/P3170302.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/bossqwjw/P3170313.jpg
The leg was severed and was finished off on top of the cutting stand, after I drove the tip of the sword thru the shoulder blade by banging it against the ground repeatedly.
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/bossqwjw/P3170298.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/bossqwjw/P3170323.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/bossqwjw/P3170322.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/bossqwjw/P3170320.jpg
The last thing that we struck with the sword was a buckler that I had made out of a piece of 16 ga galvanized steel. We figured we would save the best for last. We put the buckler on the end of a 7 ft pole for safety purposes, and then I struck the buckler a good zornhauw, twice on the flat of the buckler and once on the edge.
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/bossqwjw/P3170278.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/bossqwjw/1a63d4b2.jpg
The only resulting edge failure was a tiny rolled edge about ½” long that, I have no doubt could be remove easily with a stone, and the very tip was dulled from being pounded into the dirt, thru the pork shoulder blade.
I am greatly pleased with both the form and function of this sword. It easily transforms from guard to guard, and cuts thru anything I would want.
I am really looking forward to the new line of Agus Trim swords.
Wow - thanks for the performance review. We don't get a great many of those, but the new 1433 looks very impressive. After looking at the results on the poor pork shoulder, I am glad I had dinner a couple of hours ago....
So William, allow me to get to the meat of the matter,
did you opt for bar-b-q or boiled like ham hocks with cloves and pepper ? JC
did you opt for bar-b-q or boiled like ham hocks with cloves and pepper ? JC
Thank you for posting this review. I have an AT1433 on order and I'm very much looking forward to trying it out. I asked Gus to put an appleseed edge on mine, which I would expect to have a lower probability of rolling than a straight edge.
Just a little constructive criticism: Banging the sword tip into the ground could be considered gross neglect. I'd hate to see this become a common feature in sword reviews.
This issue is near and dear to me, as I learned first hand last year just how dangerous any swing towards the ground can be: I had just felled a pine tree and decided to sink my axe head into the trunk in order to drag it to the brush pile. Well, the axe went straight through 8" of wood and sunk right into the ground - right onto a rock. I mangled the edge of my Gransfors Bruks axe and had to spend a considerable amount of time working it back to a serviceable edge, as their steel is VERY hard. I learned to never swing an edged weapon or tool in such a way that it can impact the ground. The other thing I learned is that Gransfors Bruks axes are nothing short of amazing in terms of their cutting ability, but that's another story. ;)
Just a little constructive criticism: Banging the sword tip into the ground could be considered gross neglect. I'd hate to see this become a common feature in sword reviews.
This issue is near and dear to me, as I learned first hand last year just how dangerous any swing towards the ground can be: I had just felled a pine tree and decided to sink my axe head into the trunk in order to drag it to the brush pile. Well, the axe went straight through 8" of wood and sunk right into the ground - right onto a rock. I mangled the edge of my Gransfors Bruks axe and had to spend a considerable amount of time working it back to a serviceable edge, as their steel is VERY hard. I learned to never swing an edged weapon or tool in such a way that it can impact the ground. The other thing I learned is that Gransfors Bruks axes are nothing short of amazing in terms of their cutting ability, but that's another story. ;)
| David Martin wrote: |
| Thank you for posting this review. I have an AT1433 on order and I'm very much looking forward to trying it out. I asked Gus to put an appleseed edge on mine, which I would expect to have a lower probability of rolling than a straight edge.
Just a little constructive criticism: Banging the sword tip into the ground could be considered gross neglect. I'd hate to see this become a common feature in sword reviews. ;) |
HI David
Actually, the appleseed edge won't make any difference to the edge's durability. Its a myth...........
And I told William to do their best or worst with the sword, as long as it could be seen as something a sword might actually have to deal with. Sticking it in a vice would have been excessive, but I'm quite alright with how they handled things.
If I may, I have a couple of things to add to Bill's review.
First of all, there is really no way of just writing a review and getting the point across on how much abuse we put this sword through. We were cutting on pig bone that was free hanging and swinging through the air. I have read from other sword manufacturers in regards to damage to their blades that the damage was "operator error" due to not having a perfect blade angle on impact. Few of our cuts on the hanging bone were with ideal technique, and we planned it that way. There was a very high percentage of cuts made with the blade angled off the ideal line and it still cut into and through the bones, and they all did so without damaging the blade.
Bill also forgot to mention that as we cut up the bone into smaller pieces, we made several cuts into his cutting stand and made deep and heavy cuts into a very hard, brittle plastic without causing damage.
As a word of caution, Gustold me he wants everyone to know not to try this with any of his other lines as they (along most other swords on the market today in my opinion) simply will not stand up to this amount of abuse.
The following is my interpretation of what I have been told by Gus, and any misunderstanding is strictly my fault.
This line is aimed directly at us, as martial artists. In the past, the biggest buyers of swords have been collectors, and backyard cutters cutting foam noodles, cardboard tubes and grass mats, with their "heaviest" target being light plywood, as a competition material going for cut depth. Most swords that have been offered to martial artists have been these same swords with modifications designed to keep the old customers but beef it up just enough we wouldn't destroy them outright. Gus decided from earlier events that there is just no way to make a sword for us to use... again, as martial artists... while keeping it in line with what the backyard hobbyist collectors want.
Now, before anyone gets their feathers ruffled I want to point out I am not saying there is anything wrong with the backyard hobbyist collectors. What they do is just as valid as what we are doing with swords. It is not like swords have a modern use, and we don't really need to know how to actually use one in battle... because we more likely than not are never going to. We just have different uses for swords, and thus different needs from swords.
This sword is a functional tool. It doesn't feel heavy, it feels robust. The fit is excellent. After all the cutting we did, it was as tight as it was when we started. The finish is functional. There are no deep machine marks on it, but it is also not a highly polished piece. Again, you pick it up and think "tool", not "art".
And last but not least, I believe these are going to run in the $450-$500 range.
I now have what I wanted... a sword maker that is trying to cater to our needs as martial artists. If nothing else, check the guy out and help by giving him some feedback.
We didn't get anything for this except the use of the sword to evaluate it, so it's not like I am being paid to say this. Of all the swords I have held so far, if money was no object, I want my next one to be from this line. If I had to get one to actually use for real, I would want one of these and I would recommend it to anybody with a clear conscience. Don't go to the Blade Show without checking these out.
David Welch
First of all, there is really no way of just writing a review and getting the point across on how much abuse we put this sword through. We were cutting on pig bone that was free hanging and swinging through the air. I have read from other sword manufacturers in regards to damage to their blades that the damage was "operator error" due to not having a perfect blade angle on impact. Few of our cuts on the hanging bone were with ideal technique, and we planned it that way. There was a very high percentage of cuts made with the blade angled off the ideal line and it still cut into and through the bones, and they all did so without damaging the blade.
Bill also forgot to mention that as we cut up the bone into smaller pieces, we made several cuts into his cutting stand and made deep and heavy cuts into a very hard, brittle plastic without causing damage.
As a word of caution, Gustold me he wants everyone to know not to try this with any of his other lines as they (along most other swords on the market today in my opinion) simply will not stand up to this amount of abuse.
The following is my interpretation of what I have been told by Gus, and any misunderstanding is strictly my fault.
This line is aimed directly at us, as martial artists. In the past, the biggest buyers of swords have been collectors, and backyard cutters cutting foam noodles, cardboard tubes and grass mats, with their "heaviest" target being light plywood, as a competition material going for cut depth. Most swords that have been offered to martial artists have been these same swords with modifications designed to keep the old customers but beef it up just enough we wouldn't destroy them outright. Gus decided from earlier events that there is just no way to make a sword for us to use... again, as martial artists... while keeping it in line with what the backyard hobbyist collectors want.
Now, before anyone gets their feathers ruffled I want to point out I am not saying there is anything wrong with the backyard hobbyist collectors. What they do is just as valid as what we are doing with swords. It is not like swords have a modern use, and we don't really need to know how to actually use one in battle... because we more likely than not are never going to. We just have different uses for swords, and thus different needs from swords.
This sword is a functional tool. It doesn't feel heavy, it feels robust. The fit is excellent. After all the cutting we did, it was as tight as it was when we started. The finish is functional. There are no deep machine marks on it, but it is also not a highly polished piece. Again, you pick it up and think "tool", not "art".
And last but not least, I believe these are going to run in the $450-$500 range.
I now have what I wanted... a sword maker that is trying to cater to our needs as martial artists. If nothing else, check the guy out and help by giving him some feedback.
We didn't get anything for this except the use of the sword to evaluate it, so it's not like I am being paid to say this. Of all the swords I have held so far, if money was no object, I want my next one to be from this line. If I had to get one to actually use for real, I would want one of these and I would recommend it to anybody with a clear conscience. Don't go to the Blade Show without checking these out.
David Welch
| David Welch wrote: |
|
As a word of caution, Gustold me he wants everyone to know not to try this with any of his other lines as they (along most other swords on the market today in my opinion) simply will not stand up to this amount of abuse. The following is my interpretation of what I have been told by Gus, and any misunderstanding is strictly my fault. This line is aimed directly at us, as martial artists. In the past, the biggest buyers of swords have been collectors, and backyard cutters cutting foam noodles, cardboard tubes and grass mats, with their "heaviest" target being light plywood, as a competition material going for cut depth. Most swords that have been offered to martial artists have been these same swords with modifications designed to keep the old customers but beef it up just enough we wouldn't destroy them outright. Gus decided from earlier events that there is just no way to make a sword for us to use... again, as martial artists... while keeping it in line with what the backyard hobbyist collectors want. |
Thanks David
I thought I'd comment on this a bit. Actually, I've been making swords for martial artists quite a while. Having spent some time with both Christian Tobler and Bob Charron a few years ago, I finally figured out what it took to make a "longsword" for use for the German and Fiore type systems, unarmored work......So, for the last four years, I've made longswords that work very well for 15th century unarmored longsword work........
I also have made since the beginning of my swordmaking venture, swords on the lighter end of the historic scale per type. Many of these have become popular for the recreational cutter, because of the handling and cutting performance. Popular enough, that this part of the niche really became the most important part of my customer base. Great handling, great cutting, but not going to do well when slammed into armor........ not intended for that, and I doubt the similar historical antiques would have done well slamming into plate either......
About 3 years ago, I sent a really nice longsword out for a review, and it was broken on a helmet. This was a sword that was never intended as a "battlefield" sword, it was a longsword, unarmored work. But it was broken, and the "fragile" tag was layed on the Atrim lineup..........Within three months the first AT1433 was made, a sword that would cut with the best, increasingly challenging targets, and a sword that would subdue the helmet on a pole, and still be an excellent sword afterwards. A battlefield sword, not just a longsword.............
It really didn't receive any marketing as such for a long time, as my business went thru a great deal of turmoil, and the political climate was such, that I needed to learn to keep my mouth shut........
Last summer, I started developing a line of swords to complement the AT1433 as "battlefield" swords, swords that could take the "incidental" hard contact with armor, and still cut an unarmored foe in half...........
Another 1433 is going to the Blade Show, one with a longer handle, lighter pommel. An AT1403 is going, a XVa. An AT1446 is boxed up, another XVIa. If I can get it done in time, an AT1445 is going, one heavy duty XVIIIb......... These swords should perform like the review 1433 did.........
There's also going to be 3 arming swords going............
Angus;
Since I have a AT1435 on order with Chistian Fletcher I'm curious how it compares to the AT1433 in contexts of this review topic ?
I love the double fullers and from the stats on the CF site it seems a bit like the AT1433 but " even more " !
Oh, how wide is the AT1435 at the guard ?: Just curious as it looks fine aesthetically in the Picts.
I'm more a collector than a user of swords but I like the idea of having a sword that could stand up to normal armoured combat. And all else being equal I like stuff that is railroad engineered.
As to hitting the ground or a rock, cement floor, steel door ......... I wouldn't expect that to happen and not have at least a dull spot to have to sharpen. Accident or abuse maybe but not a test: If it does unfortunately happen and the damage is less than expected that it a plus.
In the range of your " battlefield " swords where does the AT1435 compare ?
Part of the fun of waiting for a sword to arrive is learning more about it while waiting. :D
Since I have a AT1435 on order with Chistian Fletcher I'm curious how it compares to the AT1433 in contexts of this review topic ?
I love the double fullers and from the stats on the CF site it seems a bit like the AT1433 but " even more " !
Oh, how wide is the AT1435 at the guard ?: Just curious as it looks fine aesthetically in the Picts.
I'm more a collector than a user of swords but I like the idea of having a sword that could stand up to normal armoured combat. And all else being equal I like stuff that is railroad engineered.
As to hitting the ground or a rock, cement floor, steel door ......... I wouldn't expect that to happen and not have at least a dull spot to have to sharpen. Accident or abuse maybe but not a test: If it does unfortunately happen and the damage is less than expected that it a plus.
In the range of your " battlefield " swords where does the AT1435 compare ?
Part of the fun of waiting for a sword to arrive is learning more about it while waiting. :D
| Jean Thibodeau wrote: |
| Angus;
Since I have a AT1435 on order with Chistian Fletcher I'm curious how it compares to the AT1433 in contexts of this review topic ? I love the double fullers and from the stats on the CF site it seems a bit like the AT1433 but " even more " ! Oh, how wide is the AT1435 at the guard ?: Just curious as it looks fine aesthetically in the Picts. I'm more a collector than a user of swords but I like the idea of having a sword that could stand up to normal armoured combat. And all else being equal I like stuff that is railroad engineered. As to hitting the ground or a rock, cement floor, steel door ......... I wouldn't expect that to happen and not have at least a dull spot to have to sharpen. Accident or abuse maybe but not a test: If it does unfortunately happen and the damage is less than expected that it a plus. In the range of your " battlefield " swords where does the AT1435 compare ? Part of the fun of waiting for a sword to arrive is learning more about it while waiting. :D |
I imagine the Picts would have liked something like this... ohh, wait a minute, you mean pics........*g*
The 1435 is longer and heavier, but is related to the 1433. The 1435 was intended for the guy that likes longer warswords, than the guy that would feel real warm and cozy with the 1433. The character of the distal taper is very similar, but the 1435 is just a bit thicker from the cross to the tip. The ridge of the double fuller helps add rigidity, generally speaking, everything being equal, a longer sword is less rigid than the shorter one. The 1435 is a bit thicker, and has the extra ridge, thus is as rigid as the 1433..........
Its been about two years, but the 1435 was tested on a 55 gal drum......... and the video was posted, linked to from SFI.
Being a 4lb warsword, it takes a bit to use its potential, but it definitely has impact potential for those that can get this large sword up to speed..........
Now, I have to ask........... what is "normal armored combat"?
Angus;
Quote: " Now, I have to ask........... what is "normal armored combat"? "
The normal part meaning capable of being used against armour and needing only some sharpening to repair minor rolling of edges or dulling. ( No cutting of anvils in half expected though ! )
Oh, just my clumsy and confusing way of saying a sword meant to take the wear and tear of armoured combat as opposed to unarmoured work you were talking about earlier in this topic thread: Heavier less fragile edges that won't roll as easily as finer edges, if I understood you correctly. ( Sorry, for inventing an expression when I though I was just repeating what you were saying. )
From your description I think I will be very happy with the 1435.
It's a little smaller that my 6 pound A & A 15th century twohander and I find that one at least holdable with one hand
( One hand use maybe just at the limit of possible if quick recovery wasn't an issue. )
But, seriously, I love the Pict ( Picture / photograph :p , wrong way to abbreviate the word ??? ) on Christian's site. :cool:
( Edited: Took some time but finally got the PICTS reference i.e. Blue painted early British Isles Warriors. Good joke. )
Quote: " Now, I have to ask........... what is "normal armored combat"? "
The normal part meaning capable of being used against armour and needing only some sharpening to repair minor rolling of edges or dulling. ( No cutting of anvils in half expected though ! )
Oh, just my clumsy and confusing way of saying a sword meant to take the wear and tear of armoured combat as opposed to unarmoured work you were talking about earlier in this topic thread: Heavier less fragile edges that won't roll as easily as finer edges, if I understood you correctly. ( Sorry, for inventing an expression when I though I was just repeating what you were saying. )
From your description I think I will be very happy with the 1435.
It's a little smaller that my 6 pound A & A 15th century twohander and I find that one at least holdable with one hand
( One hand use maybe just at the limit of possible if quick recovery wasn't an issue. )
But, seriously, I love the Pict ( Picture / photograph :p , wrong way to abbreviate the word ??? ) on Christian's site. :cool:
( Edited: Took some time but finally got the PICTS reference i.e. Blue painted early British Isles Warriors. Good joke. )
| Angus Trim wrote: | ||
HI David Actually, the appleseed edge won't make any difference to the edge's durability. Its a myth........... And I told William to do their best or worst with the sword, as long as it could be seen as something a sword might actually have to deal with. Sticking it in a vice would have been excessive, but I'm quite alright with how they handled things. |
If you always cut at the right angle appleseed edges won't make a difference perhaps. But surely an arch is more resistant to rolling the edge than a flat surface would be? Whats the default sharpening on an AT? Flatground with some blending?
Page 1 of 1
You cannot post new topics in this forumYou cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
All contents © Copyright 2003-2006 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Full-featured Version of the forum
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Full-featured Version of the forum