Greetings all,
I’m new to the forum, but not new to the love and lore of historical edged weaponry. I’m presently heavily involved in my other hobby, WW2 Reenacting (USGI), but am now making inroads and shifting some emphasis into developing this recently-dormant field of interest, i.e., medieval military history circa 1100 AD to 1320 AD, specifically the Military Orders of the crusades, and further specifically the aspect of swords, scabbards and suspension systems. Which brings me to the crux of this post: Can someone tell me where I can find a larger copy of either of these two excellent reference images?




I’m in the process of beginning to build/ craft my own version of a c.1230 French knight’s scabbard and belt system for the Hospitaller impression I’m interested in creating. I’ve done an extensive web search for reference materials, and except for finding this great site and the excellent scabbard tutorials/threads, I’ve pretty much turned up zilch as far as photos or DIY texts concerning the methods of medieval scabbard lacing…until I spotted the aforesaid images. I’d like to find a source for a larger version of either or both so I can print them for my personal use. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
I look forward to being a viable and productive contributor to this site!
Rob

Howard,
Hello and welcome to myArmoury.com. Here's a thread that covers the second pic (which appears to be slightly larger than what you linked to: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=4951

Welcome from one Floridian to another!

Thanks for the welcome, fellas! I'm glad to be here! :D

Chad...thanks for the link, but that's the thread I initially copied the image from...only thing is, my eyesight ain't what it used to be, and I can hardly read the handwritten details.... :eek: ...I was hoping to get a larger version, or a link to it...this is the only other thing I could scrounge up...



It's nice, but I was hoping for something with a little more detail....

Steve,
Hello to a fellow Sunshine Stater! It sure is nice, all the warm weather we've been getting lately! :)

Rob

You might want to try sending a PM to Peter Johnsson, as if I don't miss my guess those images are his sketches (and copyright to him, if I'm reading the top one correctly).

Definitely drawings related to the Tritonia, maybe Peter can E-Mail you a version at higher screen resolution so that you could read the texts.

Maybe some of the scabbard makers here might be willing to give you some advice even if this might be giving away some trade secrets ? I can't make that decision for them though. :eek: :lol:

And welcome to the site. :D

Howard,

If you save the picture to your computer and open it in Windows Picture Viewer, or a similar program, you should be able to read most of the writing. That's what I did. I'm contemplating my first suspension right now, so I've spent quite a bit of time staring at that drawing. I'm glad you posted, because I'm wondering pretty much the same things.

Does anyone know of any scabbards circa 1050-1150 that would be simpler to make then the commonly seen intricate suspensions like the one illustrated. The suspension on Chad's Sovereign scabbard looks like it may be slightly simpler to construct. Would something similar be appropriate circa 1050-1150?

Kenton

Perhaps this one might be a bit better?

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Ya, that is better, thanks Kjell.

Kenton

Kjell,
WOW! That's exactly what I was looking for! My poor old eyes will be forever thanking you! :lol:

BTW, after some surfing around the site, I came across this scabbard suspension made by Al Muckart:

http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=6325

I was wondering if any of you guys have made a similar one, because I'm curious as to how long to make the renges...I'm working with Tandy's 72" cowhide belt blank, 2" wide...I don't want to cut it until I can get an idea of the correct length...I've got a period buckle and fittings on order from http://talbotsfineaccessories.com/Jewelry/buckles.html and http://www.billyandcharlie.com/belt.html....anybody got some ideas?
Rob
(I thought about roughing one out in thick foam or cloth first, just to experiment...)

Sorry Howard, I should have been more specific. The scabbard I was referring to can be seen here: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?p=65346#65346


Kenton

Kenton,
Thanks for the link...and Chad should be proud! I like the effigy rig also...hmmm...I may consider doing 2 different century styles myself... :)
Rob

Hi Rob,

R. Howard Dawkins wrote:

Kjell, WOW! That's exactly what I was looking for! My poor old eyes will be forever thanking you! :lol: BTW, after some surfing around the site, I came across this scabbard suspension made by Al Muckart: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=6325 I was wondering if any of you guys have made a similar one, because I'm curious as to how long to make the renges...I'm working with Tandy's 72" cowhide belt blank, 2" wide...I don't want to cut it until I can get an idea of the correct length...

I wasn't sure of the exact measurements to use when I built that scabbard (which still isn't finished, I did the chape on Sunday but still need to build the buckle and strap end, but that's another story :) ). What I did was stick it on my hip where I wanted it to be and eyeball the strap lengths. They are both way too long since I just cut a 30mm strap out of a half-hide, but they'll get trimmed once I've got the fittings.

A 72" belt should give you plenty of margin. Try spiralling the belt twice around the scabbard core where it will be laced on with about a 12" tail at the top/front and the rest of the strap out the back, that might give you some idea. I'll measure mine up when I get home and post the measurements here.

For the straps that lace into the scabbard covering I roughly figured out the lengths by wrapping the un-split strap around the scabbard in the pattern it would go in then adding some. I started by just cutting it into 2 15mm straps and tapered them as I went. This is almost certainly the wrong way to do it, but with a steady hand and _very_ sharp knives it does work.

I am in the process of documenting the step by step procedure for building this scabbard and putting it online, but I need to work out how to measure this more accurately. If anyone has ideas I'd love to hear them.

Al,

First, great job on the scabbard. I look forward to anything you post regarding the process you went through. I was just about to start figuring out how to make a scabbard when I stumbled across the forum and all the links. :)

I've been making leather armor for the past year or so (everything from gorgets to vambraces to spaulders to a full set of lamellar armor). I know how much planning, trial and error, and rebuilding goes into the finished project.

So again, awesome job on the scabbard...please post whatever you can in the future. The woodworking part of this had me a bit "puzzled", but I"m sure now that I've picked up more info (from the various posts), I'll be able to get on track

David

Knowing Ridley Scott’s propensity of taking artistic license when it comes to historical accuracy, I’m nevertheless intrigued by the design of the sword belt and scabbard lacing of Godfrey (and later Balian) of Ibelin as shown in the movie “Kingdom of Heaven”…





What is particularly interesting to me is the series of 3 renges used to secure the scabbard (as if 2 weren’t confusing enough!)…I wonder if costume designer Janty Yates found this in a period reference, or winged it on her own because it looked ‘cool’….
Rob

If I could have a bit of help understanding this suspension please:

I see that belt is split into 3 thongs. My question is what happens to the uppermost thong? I see that it encircles the top of the scabbard, but then what? Is it stitched to itself?

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