Can someone date this warhammer for me?
Hello. Willhelm writing, my first post here. Was wondering if someone could help me out with what part of what century this weapon is from:


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Hmmmm, first of all that thing is probably of middle-eastern or Indian origin. It's really hard to determine the age of such things since the designs there hardly changed over time compared to the huge differences in the West.

Do you have more info on this piece? Where did you get it from? I'm no expert on oriental arms but that thing looks a bit like a fake. However, I could be wrong :)
is it wood or is the steel that color? looks liek an old tableleg ;) hehehe pretty neat anyways. i know late 15thc they had some hammers that looked something like that in europe but that is an extreme version i have never seen.
I would tend to agree with Wolfgang. If its legit it has an Indo-Persian feel to it which makes it some what hard to date as they were using this sort of thing up to the close of the 19th century. There was however a tradition for hammers of this sort (very long head overall although usually with a flat hammer head and a very long back spike and mostly set on a wooden haft even into the 17th century) in Poland/Lithuania. While i'm not sure about the head I think the haft is a replacement. So if it on the up and up 1) Indo-Perdian date ? 2) European maybe eastern 16th-17th century?. Maybe some one else can shead more light on it but any history you might have would help.
W. Stilleborn wrote:
Can someone date this warhammer for me?


Sure, Willhelm, I would be glad to take her to a movie and then dinner. I can do that "long walks on the beach" thing too, but you'll have to provide the beach. Or maybe I could just take her for drinks. :p Sorry, just couldn't stop myself.

I haven't seen any European warhammers that looked quite like that before, but they might exist. I too am inclined to agree with the likelihood of an Indo-Persian origin. Where did you find this piece? Do you have any other info on it? It certainly is an interesting specimen.

-Grey
I'm not completely sure it is relevant but I have two turkish axes that exhibit the same sort of octagonal "eye" for the haft to go through and the same sort of haft as well. Their date: late 20th century.
There appears to be a weld in the top-right picture that seems highly suspect to me, where the hammer head connects with the socket... Of course, I'm no expert at welding (barely an amateur), so my claim can probably be shot down by someone more experienced.

I'd agree with the other statements about the Indo-Persian origin, but as for century I'm tempted to say 20th.
If I might ask where did you get this thing from?
Russ Ellis wrote:
If I might ask where did you get this thing from?


It's currently up for sale at a Swedish online-auction site. I know 'cause I just got outbid on it...
Drat so much for being able to get a read from the provenance...
Russ Ellis wrote:
Drat so much for being able to get a read from the provenance...


I'll translate the auction description for you. It reads as follows:

"I am not entirely sure what this is, possibly a replica of a war/horseman's hammer.
Massive iron with wooden haft.
Length 72cms. Length of metal part approx. 30cms. Weight 584g.
Not newly made, seems to have a couple of years to it's name. Though not medieval. =)
For some reason the metal part can be twisted around the wooden haft, which makes it quite ineffective as a weapon. Maybe you are not supposed to kill anyone with it?
Very good condition."

So, no: No provenance there. :)
Quote:
Hmmmm, first of all that thing is probably of middle-eastern or Indian origin. It's really hard to determine the age of such things since the designs there hardly changed over time compared to the huge differences in the West.


This is something often repeated and widely believed about non-European arms and armor, but which isn't actually true. In "Indo-Persia" particularly, very dramatic changes occurred which are well attested in the historical record.

I spoke on this very idea -- dynamic West vs. stagnant East in arms & armor evolution -- in a lecture I gave at the University of Houston just this past October.
That's interesting Ruel, would you say that the same factors that precipitated the change in Western Arms (i.e. increasing complexity of defenses) also caused change in Eastern Arms?
Ruel A. Macaraeg wrote:
Quote:
Hmmmm, first of all that thing is probably of middle-eastern or Indian origin. It's really hard to determine the age of such things since the designs there hardly changed over time compared to the huge differences in the West.


This is something often repeated and widely believed about non-European arms and armor, but which isn't actually true. In "Indo-Persia" particularly, very dramatic changes occurred which are well attested in the historical record.

I spoke on this very idea -- dynamic West vs. stagnant East in arms & armor evolution -- in a lecture I gave at the University of Houston just this past October.


Maybe you want to start a new thread on this topic?! I really would like to hear more! Always eager to learn :)
Yes. It is from a swedish auction-site as said above, and i was curious of its origins because it looked quite unusual.

J.N -
Världen är tydligen liten för oss internetbaserade, vapenintresserade..
W. Stilleborn wrote:
Yes. It is from a swedish auction-site as said above, and i was curious of its origins because it looked quite unusual.

J.N -
Världen är tydligen liten för oss internetbaserade, vapenintresserade..


Yes, I found it quite unusual too.

Jepp, väldigt liten märker jag. Det råkar inte vara du som bjöd över mig? :)
Quote:
Russ
That's interesting Ruel, would you say that the same factors that precipitated the change in Western Arms (i.e. increasing complexity of defenses) also caused change in Eastern Arms?

Quote:
Wolfgang
Maybe you want to start a new thread on this topic?! I


Friends,
There are probably several worthwhile discussions we could spin off from here:

* Is there such a thing as an East/West divide in arms and armor? (I really don't believe so)
* Is there even such a thing as an "East" in terms of arms and armor? (Again, I think not)
* Have European weapons really been more dynamic and innovative throughout history in comparison to other traditions? (I don't believe this either, though one gets this impression from the way material in our "reference" books is organized)

Which direction should we take? Any of them would probably make a lively critical thinking exercise. :cool:
Joachim Nilsson wrote:
Jepp, väldigt liten märker jag. Det råkar inte vara du som bjöd över mig? :)



Nej då. Den hade lite för "intressant" utseende för min smak..

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