Hi,

This is my first post and I must say I am quite intimidated. You all guys seem to carry such a science and knowledge of swords, and I am just an amateur who uses your object of passion, not even historically, but for the purpose of entertaining. This is what I do, creating shows implying fencing, for the beauty of it. This is the advantage of artistic fencing over olympic fencing... profane can see and decode what is happening, and take side if they will, etc.

Here comes my question. In our fencing school, we all have the same type of swords, roughly. They are coming either from Jiri Krondak, or Chevaliers d'Auvergne. I would like to get something... different, but usable in stage combat. I must say I need dedicated weapon, because we do a lot of this, 1 to 3 rehearsals a week and shows during the week-end. The weapons have to be made for stage combat.

Someone told me about Lutel, and I was impressed by the aspect of them on the pictures. Then I continued searching, and I found new names like A&A, Atrim, etc. and... Albion Swords, whom work I have been particularly impressed (not to say fascinated) by.

What would be the best choice, considering price, import to France practicality, and purely technical and logical stage fencing particularities I have just but mentionned, but which you can imagine ?

Do you think waiting for the new Albion Maestro Line is a good idea ? Should I try Lutel ? Or Atrim ? They all look and people say they feel superb ! Please help :).

Regards,

(PS : Sorry if I did not post in the right place, and for my hesitating English. Those words used here are not part of my usual Shakespearian lexicon :) ).

Myself is waiting for the maestroline...

Damien,
Welcome to the forums! Thanks for the question. I've moved it to the Historical Arms Talk forum (for Discussions of historic reproduction and authentic arms and armour from various cultures and time periods) since you're asking asking about companies who make reproductions based, in varying degrees, on historical swords.

Not being a stage fencer, I can't help you too much, except to say that many reenactors like Lutel's products from what I hear. Albion's Maestro line looks promising, but there are no reports on them since they aren't in production yet. The rest of Albion's historic lines are proven winners, though.

Many people like Atrim swords for cutting. His stage (fully rebated) line hasn't received much press, though. Arms & Armor has made stage weapons used by the Globe Theater in London. They may be a good choice.

By the way, please don't be intimidated by any of us. :) And your English is quite good, actually. Also, we all started our quests for knowledge by doing just what you've done: asking questions. We have people of all levels of experience around here, and I'm sure you'll get some help with your question.

Again, welcome!

Damien-

First off, welcome to myArmoury. You stated feeling a bit intimidated... most of us don't bite - it's generally a wonderful environment full of good information, kinsmanship, and support. Jump on in!

There are a number of options for you, and you named a few.

Gus Trim has a number of nice pieces out there. From reviews I have heard, and a piece or two I have personally seen, this may be a good option for you. I'll bet he posts to this thread himself, and can give you more direct and specific information. Whether the practical rapiers have been released yet or if they are still in development, I am not certain. Gus is pretty helpful, and will answer your questions.

Arms & Armor (www.arms-n-armor.com) has a few stage pieces on their website, but can make much more than they advertise. Craig and crew are all quite excellent to deal with. These should be highly historical, and look beautiful. They do carry a reasonable price tag, given what you recieve in return. These are in production now.

Albion makes an outstanding product in their Squire, Next Gen, and Museum Line pieces. Knowing how they operate, and knowing Peter Johnsson's work ethic/philosophy, the Maestro Line pieces should be awesome. When the rapier will be released for production, I don't know. I do know I'll be picking up a few pieces from this line myself.

Whether or not any of the pieces from Tripplette Competition Arms / Zen Warrior (www.triplette.com) would work for you, you might decide on your own. I have used their Schlager-bladed swept-hilts for quite some time, and have had really good results. They are pseudo-realistic, but extremely easy to maintain. Should a blade ever take a set or need replacement, it can be done in literally seconds. The guys there have also been awesome to deal with.

There have been a number of posts about Darkwood on here - people seem to be quite happy with things from there. Hopefully, someone will post about their experiences with them and their work.

There are tons more... but I have no firsthand or even reasonable reference material that comes to mind. As such, I'll stop here, but I am sure others will chime in.

-A

Damien,

Welcome to myArmoury, I hope that you will find what you are seeking here.....and more , much more ! :)

Regarding swords for practice and entertainment, my own choice would be Paul Binns in Cambridgeshire,England. Paul has been supplying the re enactment market with swords for many years now and really has the best name in those circles for swords, axes , daggers etc. His swords may not always be the prettiest, or perhaps the cheapest, but they are all guaranteed and they just last and last and last ! Also his blades are hard, but not brittle ,and you will not have to keep cleaning up the edges and taking nicks out like you will with many other makes. I have seen some amazing demonstrations with his weapons, and I have never seen one fail yet.
Re enactors come in all levels of experience when it comes to weapons use, some are extremely proficient and others look more like a helicopter trying to take off !! :cry: This is not a problem with his swords , they can take it ! I know people who have had swords made by him that are still going strong after ten years !! They are well worth the cost in the long run.

http://www.paul-binns-swords.co.uk/

In my opinion he is well worth checking out for your needs.

Hope that this helps.

Regards as ever,

Russ

It depends on whether you're looking for a rapier or a sword. If a rapier, I'd get a purpose-built fencing rapie. Darkwood does nice work, and I enjoyed my Alchem Pappenheimer/Main Gauche set ( http://www.alcheminc.com/longblades.html ). Alchem has swords as well, but If I wanted something of more historically accurate weight and look, I'd get something from MRL and do a little work on it to make it safe and sturdy. That means taking it apart (unscrewing the pommel, in most cases) and using JB Weld or some other strong epoxy to secure all components. Then I'd take a file or grinder to the point and edge(s) of the blade to make it very blunt. Choose a single-edge blade to reduce your time investment by half. MRL/Windlass blades are inexpensive, but well-made. They'll break if given sufficient abuse, but so will any sword.

I'm not sure if you are looking for rapiers or medieval swords. Also, how much you are willing to spend can narrow or expand your choices.

Gus Trim has started to sell blunted practice swords - http://www.angustrimdirect.com/practiceswordhome.htm - They are lightand maneauverable, and you can tighten up a loose hilt very easily. They are a little more expensive than some stage swords, and continued edge to edge bashing will nick up the blade more than would happen to the typical 5 lb. stage combat crowbar clunker sword.

Another possibility - in Scotland - www.armourclass.co.uk

Sorry I did not specify the type of swords I am looking for.

We do re-enactment (is that the good word for stage fencing ?) for all time periods spanning from antiquity to nowadays. Some guys in our school did a show for StarWars Episode III with homemade laser sabers, as we did for Kingdom of Heaven (making its own mail shirt sure is loooooong :) ).

I take your advices for medieval swords, from the 12th century to the end of the 15th. But I am also interested in rapiers. It is a shame that in Brittany, where I live, people prefer middle-ages. I must admit that I like 18th and 19th fencing best.

But as it is not what we do most in my school, and in my "fellowship" :), I look now for a medieval sword... one-hand for combat with a shield, or one hand-and-a-half because I like it better :).

Thanks.

Here's a nice 15th c. sword based on an original weapon in Oakeshott's Records of the Medieval Sword. It's only $95 USD! You would need to blunt it.

http://www.MuseumReplicas.com/webstore/showpr...Position=9

I also notice that Alchem now has a fencing longsword for under $200.

Nice indeed... and very cheap !

But I would like better to have a sword already blunted, or better still, readily made especially for stage combat. I think that blunting a weapon oneself must require some skill I do not have (yet), and the loss of matter must be quite harmful for the delicate balance of the sword, and its overall usability, or am I wrong ?

Price only becomes an issue if it exceeds $400. That is why Albion Swords do not make my bank account go blank (tiny attempt to play on words here, do not blame the artist :) ), and I cannot keep my eyes of them, but I want to know if it is reasonable to be confident in their work, knowing the quality they usually bring to their swords, but that this is a tryout in stage weapons. Or is it better to go for Lutel or all the other nice makers you already talked to me about ?

Paul Binns in particular caught my eye, thanks Russ, but I do not find the link on medieval swords on his site, although he refers to it... strange.

And, what can I say, this is an awesome community, so many answers in such short delay :D , thanks.

Hello Damien,

First time posting here can be intimidating, but the members here are all friendly, very knowledgeable and more than willing to give advice. As for stage rapier blunts, you might try Darkwood Armoury here in the US. http://www.darkwoodarmory.com/main.shtml

Scott Wilson, the owner of darkwood makes some of the best rapier simulators on the market today. They make a wide variety of hilt styles and have quit a few flexible blade choices. he also dose some very good custom work. Their prices are reasonable by industry standards. Their equipment is built to take abuse and most likely will provide you with all the stage presents you will need.

Sorry I must have been unclear, once again.
I am a fencing student, and I have learnt some realities the hard way over the last years :). In my school, we do not do any free-sparring combat, just choregraphied stage combat. I personaly do not like free-sparring combat, because you cannot really make a show of it, or tell a story while you fight. And, as I said, choregraphied stage combat, with a story to tell, is what we do.

When I spoke about blunting, I was not worrying about accuracy, but more about "the feel" of the sword. I know too much of cheap swords with no balance whatsoever, and which, despite their "normal" weight, are a torture for the wrist and are too slow and clumsy to manipulate.

That was the reason for my remark about the fact I would prefer, for the price, a weapon really made for stage combat over a sharp one that I would have to blunt. Simply because I think it should change the feel of it. But I may be wrong.
I loved your comparison about the Land Rover by the way. Very appropriate :). But I think that catalog Maestro Line Albion swords are not that expensive, do you ? That is why I say myself, why not having a trully superb object, made for stage combat, but also, in most ways, historically accurate, just for the pleasure of it ?

I will try hard to make myself clearer :). Long time I did not practice my written English :).

Hi Damien!

Considering price and import to France practicality the best choice (in my opinion) would be to stay with the Czech makers. Jiri Krondak is really on the low end, with price and the quality. But his swords are durable, you must admit that.

Have you considered other Czech makers such as Pavel Moc or Radek Lobko? Here are the websites:

Pavel Moc:

[ Linked Image ]

http://www.myArmoury.com/links.php?id=20 - It seems that the site is curently beeing renewed


Radek Lobko:

[ Linked Image ]

http://www.swordcutler.com/index_en.php



Their swords are made for stage combat / reenactment, yet they're light and well made, and quite historically accurate. They're cheap too - you can get a lot for 200 - 250 Euros, and some models are even cheaper.

Buyer review of a Radek Lobko's sword:

http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...obko+pavel


Reviews of Pavel Moc's swords from myArmoury:


http://www.myArmoury.com/review_moc_italy.html

[ Linked Image ]

http://www.myArmoury.com/review_moc_violet.html

Alchem's new practice longsword is kind of interesting, mainly because it's only $163 for non-US buyers and has an interchangeable blade. Alchem offers different hilt styles and finishes as well. It's listed as 1.91 pounds, so might be slightly too light or oddly balanced for serious study.

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Welcome, first of all.

Only a few sundry comments to add to the wealth of tips above. It seems you are interested in both medieval and renaissance weapons : may find that a different supplier is needed for each in some cases, some suppliers are more general some seem to concentrate on one period.

Weight : looking at the suppliers of the swords your club normally uses, they (from the ones I've seen) often use adapted fencing blades by makers such as Blaises Freres. If you are looking to do any flamboyant fencing, look carefully at the weights of the swords, not just the balance. It can be a different matter fencing with a 400 g epee blade-based weapon and moving to a weapon weighing close to a kilo, and some replica swords on the market have weights that are simply impractical and don't reflect the originals. So look at weight and consider whether you can physically fence with it in a stage context . I agree with Sean's comment that adjustments to the edge of a blade probably won't affect the balance in a serious way, at least it's a lesser consideration to the overall weight and balance of the weapon.

And if you are going to use a blunted blade, perhaps converted from a sharp, make sure it really is safe.

And good on you for doing stage combat. Until a few months ago I had not considered doing anything except modern fencing or a bit of historical fencing but a friend persuaded me to help out in one of the English Heritage open-air historical reenactments of the civil war. It was actually great fun, particularly as the kids and adults watching seemed to have a great time (cannons going off, muskets, everyone in costume). Good way to teach people about history and a fun day out. Only problem was getting used to choreographed outcomes. I kept having to tell myself I was scripted to lose to this round-head officer despite the fact that his defensive guard had holes in it you could drive a truck through.



Hope you find what you need, welcome and keep up the stage work.



DANIEL

Welcome Damien!

After reading your posts thus far I think Lutel might be one of your better choices. As a former fight director I have more that a little experience with choreographed theatrical combat. I'm sure Albion's Maestro Line will be worthwhile, but I can't recommend something that doesn't exist as of yet. There's also the importation costs to consider on your end. Lutel would be much more cost effective in that respect. I've been fairly impressed with the Lutel pieces that I've owned or handled. They have all been solidly constructed and affordable. From a standpoint of theatrical combat I think they will serve you well.