I found this image of a 14th century quillon dagger that (I think) was found in Leiden in the Netherlands along with its sheath in pretty awesome condition. The dagger used to be in the 'Museum De Lakenhal' in Leiden and may still be there. I did not find it when searching in their online object collection. Has anybody seen more pictures of dagger somewhere else or is perhaps sitting on some detail images? I ask because I want to make a copy of it and I'm wondering:

(A) Is it possibly missing a pommel?
(B) If it hasn't lost a pommel, how was the tang peened and finished?
(C) How thick is the blade?
(D) what is the design of the belt attachments on the back of the sheath?

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NIce.

Yes it is missing a pommel, and the quillons look so mid 15thC, so I have a slight doubt over the 14thC attribution.

From the shadows, the blade looks to be quite thick at 7-8mm I would guess, though for this size knife 6mm would be more normal.

The fittings will most likely be folded over and soldered and the mouth will likely either have a ring or a staple for suspension - could be either.

There are a few very similar sheath fitting sets made by Arms and Armour, Josh Davies and myself and you will find these if you search here.

Good luck

Tod

Here's another one. Found during excavations in 2002 of the Manour of the Lords of Arkel and the Grote School on the Krijtstraat in Gorinchem. Both the dagger form Leiden and this one seem to have been found in a 14th century archeological context. Interestingly this one has a tinned crossguard. It was found point down as if it had been driven into the ground and left there. There was no sign of a pommel.

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Finally, the effigy of Frederik van Drakenborch Bailiff of Utrecht (1350) or, less likely, his brother Werner (bailiff from 1364 to 1377). Not the same but at least it validates the use daggers of a similar type with no pommel at this time and in this region.

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Ralph de Knevynton (+1370), Aveley Curch, Essex, England. No pommel, weapon chain attached to end of tang and this is reportedly a Flemish made brass.

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Rotterdam (1275-1300). different blade type but same general hilt design and structure as the specimen from Leiden.

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Well you got me on this one.

You are right. What I looked at and saw a regular tang is in fact curled around on both the first and last daggers to form a loop.

Never seen anything like it. It also means that you are correct, these two daggers never had a pommel.

Unless I am wrong again.....

Tod

The dagger in the Museum De Lakenhal has the 6" to 8" blade that we see on most knightly effigies in the late 14th and early 15th century. If you could wear a sword, you didn't need a giant dagger that looked impressive but was bad at doing dagger work.

Ignorant person's (me) comment incoming...

In regards to the handle construction is there maybe some kind of washer or something? Although how do you get the loop? Is the loop big enough to keep the handle in place? Would the tang go through the handle, then maybe bent in a loop but tight up against the handle? How could you do that without destroying the handle (wouldn't you have to do this while the tang is hot? Really curious...(to me anyways).

There's a bunch of figures of armed citizens of Stralsund armed with daggers that have some similar features to the daggers I posted painted onto columns in the Sankt Nikolai church (~1370), Stralsund, Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, Germany. Some have handles similar to the one in the Knevynton effigy. One of them has a triangular blade shape similar to the Leiden and Gorinchem daggers, others have different blade shapes including one that could almost be classified as a short sword. That last one looks like the one in the Cray effigy. Others look like some type of Baselard or Anelace hilt. The high degree of variety in 14th century dagger designs is interesting I expected to see nothing but Kidney- and Rondel daggers with a sprinkling of Hollywood standard quillon daggers. I thnk I may actually go for the Willem Wenemaer dagger. It looks like nothing I've ever seen at a 14th century event.

See here: http://id.bildindex.de/thing/0001184969

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Found an example of the Leiden dagger in an effigy ... or as close as I'm likely ever going to get. Epitaph eines Rheingrafen (+1375-95), Evangelische Paulskirche, Kreuznach, Rhineland-Pfalz. This is likely Hartrad, Rheingraf von Stein who died in 1375 rather than his brother Konrad von Stein who apparently became a priest in Kreuznach. Kreuznach btw. is between frankfurt and Luxemobourg so not that far removed from Flemish cultural influence.

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