I Need some help, as I suck at researching the sources.
I was researching a specific type of Norman Helm, thet is featured often in various (respectable and not) online shops for armour. The helm in question is some type of evolution from the norman Nasal Helm, with a mask protruding in front of the face, sometimes constructed with a slight curve forward, sometimes straight. The top is protruded ahead with a small point, in a shape that is sometimes called "Phrygian", and most manufaturers date this 1170 ca. Everyone seems to agree this was a sicilian Helm in the 12th century, but I cannot, for the life of me, find examples of it, neither museum pieces, nor pictoral evidence.
Here's the helm I'm referring to
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/62/7d/a8/627da8fc7ff7addb3b2849b3bda501a0.jpg
https://www.battlemerchant.com/themes/Frontend/Battlemerchant/frontend/_public/src/img/BM_main_background.jpg
https://medieval-armour.com/images/stories/virtuemart/product/e243_b.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/236x/9f/f4/5f/9ff45fe9fcfb9374a6f1d24ba68fac3c--norman-helmet.jpg
http://www.tomala.lublin.pl/obrazy/big/helm183_3.jpg
The only evidence I found is from the Fresco of the Martyr of Thomas Beckett in a church in Spoleto, here it is:
https://www.laforgiadelgrifone.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/martirio-di-thomas-becket-chiesa-di-san-giovanni-e-san-paolo-spoleto-1175-ca-1.jpg
I find it hard to believe that ALL these makers based their work on a single piece of evidence, so, where can I find more evidence for this type of helm?
https://manuscriptminiatures.com/3966/11581 Here you can find something similar, but it looks more like a lining on the edge of the Maille, instead of a part of the mask
Unfortunately the photograph is really old, as the face of the soldier is now lost...
Hi Michele - there are a few representations of helms similar to this from period manuscripts - the Lost Tomb of Count William of Flanders (St Omer), Legend of Roland (stained glass window) Chartes Cathedral. I confess I looked up the Osprey book "The Normans" but I did check online copies of the primary sources and it does seem to be genuine. There are certainly no legitimate surviving helms that I could find... But this is way after my period of interest and there are lots of folks on this forum that know more than me. :)
I know there is a carving from the 12th century that shows them. I’ll try to post it tomorrow. I believe I’ve seen some other depictions. Guess I’ll have to spend time looking through my books tomorrow. Thanks for giving me an excuse to do so. :)
Chad Arnow wrote: |
I know there is a carving from the 12th century that shows them. I’ll try to post it tomorrow. I believe I’ve seen some other depictions. Guess I’ll have to spend time looking through my books tomorrow. Thanks for giving me an excuse to do so. :) |
Do you mean the Monreale capitals?
Code: |
https://gladius.revistas.csic.es/index.php/gladius/article/view/134/134 |
As far as miniatures go I found these, although neither are specifically Italo-Norman:
http://warfare.gq/12/Beatus-Cardena-death_of_the_2_witnesses.htm
https://manuscriptminiatures.com/3916/21732#image
I think the helms like https://i.pinimg.com/236x/9f/f4/5f/9ff45fe9fcfb9374a6f1d24ba68fac3c--norman-helmet.jpg are based specifically on art from one of the Osprey books ( https://i.imgur.com/uNPs8ht.jpg ), but what source the artist was using I have no idea as I don't think there are any extant examples, so I assume it was mostly speculative based on art. If someone has that book maybe they can check the sources.
Last edited by Raman A on Tue 31 Aug, 2021 7:07 am; edited 2 times in total
There is a drawing of a potential face-mask Norman helmet in this paper by David Nicolle
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/250312376_The_Monreale_Capitals_and_the_Military_Equipment_of_Later_Norman_Sicily/fulltext/0363e6820cf2fc730945c3d2/The-Monreale-Capitals-and-the-Military-Equipment-of-Later-Norman-Sicily.pdf
See page 89, illustration 4. There is a photo of this in D'Amato and Salimbeti "The Normans in Italy 1016-1194" on page 10.
The Osprey referred to above is , I think, David Nicolle "The Normans". Plate H1 shows the helmet. The figure is sourced to the Monreale capitals and the Murder of Thomas Becket wall painting at the Church of St John and St Paul at Spoleto, both sources which we have now identified.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/250312376_The_Monreale_Capitals_and_the_Military_Equipment_of_Later_Norman_Sicily/fulltext/0363e6820cf2fc730945c3d2/The-Monreale-Capitals-and-the-Military-Equipment-of-Later-Norman-Sicily.pdf
See page 89, illustration 4. There is a photo of this in D'Amato and Salimbeti "The Normans in Italy 1016-1194" on page 10.
The Osprey referred to above is , I think, David Nicolle "The Normans". Plate H1 shows the helmet. The figure is sourced to the Monreale capitals and the Murder of Thomas Becket wall painting at the Church of St John and St Paul at Spoleto, both sources which we have now identified.
Page 1 of 1
You cannot post new topics in this forumYou cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
All contents © Copyright 2003-2006 myArmoury.com All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Full-featured Version of the forum
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Full-featured Version of the forum