I'm considering a purchase, and I'm wondering if anyone has up-to-date knowledge of Darksword Armory's quality where sword balance is concerned? There are lots of posts dating back more than a decade, that express concerns over practical 'authenticity' issues: Weight, balance, and so-on. I'm aware the armory discontinued any number of swords and updated many of them over the last ten, fifteen years. So I'm interested if anyone has up-to-date first-hand practical knowledge of their swords' balance and weight characteristics - someone who's involved in reenactment or role-play, so has had one in their hand for practical purposes of 'combat', rather than just evaluating one for their collection.

When I began research a few weeks ago, I was looking for a practical, well-enough balanced, single-handed, 'battle ready' sword, probably in 5160 steel, and being a close approximation of the Oakshott X blade. I prefer the Type VII crossguards, and those seem to tend to have Type-I or wheel pommels. Windlass actually make exactly that - the "Classic Medieval Sword" - but I get the feeling its balance isn't one of its features. I prefer these plain weapons to purported 'authentic copies', and as a historian I don't particularly care for the cheesy 'crusader' themed embellishment on many of them. I also prefer brown leathers, not black.

... and all that that led me to the Darksword Armory's Waylander blade. In time, perhaps the "Norman" from Albion. The Waylander says : "Superb balance helps this sword to feel light and responsive in the hand ..."

So, that's my question: Does anyone know where the balance quality sits at Darksword currently, and is this more marketing blurb than practical swordsmanship speaking?

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For context, I wouldn't buy a purely decorative sword and I wouldn't buy one that was considered a 'beater', but had poor balance. I take the view that a 'beater' and a 'functional' sword purchase should have little practical difference where blade balance is concerned - if I can't rely on the blade to be practical to wield, then it isn't worth buying no matter how cheap it is. It can have 'cheap' finishing and a basic scabbard as long as its soundly forged and well balanced. In time I might well spend a couple of thousand on a high quality Albion, but the reality is that an Albion in the hands of an un-practiced swordsman isn't much more than a fancy club - it's like the guy at the range who bought a $4k Custom Les Bauer 1911, but can't hit the center round at 50 yards anyway. I've sport-fenced Foil and Sabre, so while I'm not a 'swordsman' in the reenact-er context, I do have some background with sporting/competitive sword play; enough to understand that embarking on an adventure with 'real' blades is pointless if all I get is a hunk of ambiguously balanced metal that screws-up my wrist. arm and shoulder learning how to use it.

There isn't much distal taper on that blade, which isn't a good sign -

http://kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=DSA1539BR

I'm confused. You mention wanting something that is a close approximation of an Oakeshott Type X blade but you are looking at a Darksword Waylander sword (not a Type X). What's up with that?

It's not easy to see the distal tapering properly, so that is a thought. I was viewing the product images at the maker's site though: http://www.darksword-armory.com/medieval-weap...nder-1539/

I think some of the reviewers on a re-seller site mentioned it being 'good' and the blade being well balanced and light.

But, the guesswork is why I thought I'd see if anyone has first-hand current experience of this maker's blades, and maybe this one. A dozen people can look at the marketing materials and have two dozen different opinions, but nothing can substitute for having had one in your hand,

Nathan, don't get too confused :) I described how I got started a few weeks ago, not where I ended up. The Waylander is perhaps closer to a Type-XVI blade, though it not being a 'replica' of anything specific, I'd hesitate to put my hand on my heart about what type it is. I think the "Classic Medieval Sword" at Windlass is a Type-X ... and that was how I got sidetracked looking at other Type-VII-like crossguard swords.

But let's not get hung-up on that: The question I asked was whether anyone had current Darksword Armory hands-on experience. I'm trying to find out if their balance characteristics have improved a lot from the decade-old questionable reviews. If someone's had a Waylander in their hands specifically, all the better.

I'm with Nathan. That is NOT a type X plus in the same price range(and MUCH better quality) you should look at Valiant Armoury.

If you're just starting out, I wouldn't recommend even bothering with a sword yet. Instead, I would humbly suggest investing a smaller sum in a waster and some books, finding a good group to train with, and worrying about actual weapons a bit later.

Dear Richard,

I also spent quite a bit of time on entry level swords before going to higher end products. The challenge you face is getting one that is reasonably historical accurate, and does not handle like a piece of rebar.

First, if this is your first sword and you plan to handle it I strongly suggest you stay away from sharps. Swords feel very awkward at first. You are liable to cut yourself or someone else until you get used to it and hopefully get some lessons. Second, as I guess you saw, the Kult of Athena site has statistics (including weight and distal taper) on all of the swords that would likely interest you.

Regarding Darksword: people around here don't like them because of questionable business practices, odd claims, and inconsistent customer relations. They are also a bit pricey, based on the controversial claim that they are hand forged in Canada. But looking objectively at what they have (using stats on K0H...I gave up on them a while back), the standard 'Norman' is an odd looking thing from historical perspective and as said above has little distal taper. Interestingly, the 'Norman Practice Sword' (a blunt) is much more historical looking and has a much stronger distal taper (7.3 mm - 2.7 mm). The 'XII practice sword' has the same blade (more like a transitional Xa-XII) but has a Brazil Not pommel, also reasonably accurate. Both are a bit heavy like many blunts, but should handle OK with that distal taper. I nearly bought one myself for practice a while back, except their web site said you could order in two blade styles, and when I ordered they said that was not true (!!!????). I'd put more trust in ordering from K0H.

Regarding Windlass Classic Medieval - there is nothing wrong with its handling for an entry level sword of this type: swords of this type (an Xa) are intended to be powerful choppers, not for fencing. In general Windlass is up and down from one model and even one piece to the next, so its better to look at them in person when buying.

Another brand to consider is Hanwei (especially the tinker line, some sharp, some blunt). I don't like their finish but this line has sweet handling properties from my experience, are lighter, and less expensive. Their new St. Maurice looks quite good in pictures and stats seem OK, although a long bladed one-hand sword (XI) is likely to challenge a beginner.

A bump up in price would be Valiant, which seems to have improved its statistics in the 'special edition' line (for example, see their 'Norman', which might be called an XIa. Although Its sharp.

Hope something there is helpful.

Hi JDC,
Thanks very much for the observations. Very helpful.

J.D. Crawford wrote:

Dear Richard, I also spent quite a bit of time on entry level swords before going to higher end products. The challenge you face is getting one that is reasonably historical accurate, and does not handle like a piece of rebar.

For sure. This is why I started with a survey of retailers now, making notes on whose blades they sold ... long task.

J.D. Crawford wrote:

First, if this is your first sword and you plan to handle it I strongly suggest you stay away from sharps. Swords feel very awkward at first. You are liable to cut yourself or someone else until you get used to it and hopefully get some lessons

As it happens, it's only my first medieval blade, but not at all my first real blade.

I was trying to avoid too much background narrative to prevent off-topic digressions, but perhaps I should give a little for the sake of anyone who might protectively feel the need to novice-coach from the touchline :)

I've taught a number of Japanese martial arts since I was 15. For weapons practice my bag contained bokken, shinai, and wooden tanto, as well as shoto and at one time a subrito .. and a few knife analogues. I owned a sharp Katana/Wakizashi pair that was a gift from a Japanese friend I made when my Shodan was being registered at the Kodokan, so they came from Japan and I have no idea who made them. I never owned blunted versions for demo - I once saw a man lose an arm from the mid-forearm in a choreographed demo at an exhibition, when his partner should have been using a blunt blade that turned out to be a 'sharp'. He missed a step in the Kata, and at speed that's all it took. Japanese blades and the lack of armoring or use of lame, make live-blade demos a more hazardous proposition than European blades, where it is more customary to also wear period armament. The incident left a lasting impression and I never did bladed demos at all as a result.

I fenced foil and sabre, and a little epee. Even won some tin at foil after I first did the FIE Bronze Award. My training kitbag had various Leon Paul (European maker) products - basic weapons as well as electric for competition. I owned a blunted Italian swept-hilt rapier, which it turned out had poor balance and couldn't well be used for demonstrations - too point-heavy, made my forearm ache after a while. I tried a few others, but the only sharp-blade rapier I owned was a European made Spanish Cup Hilt. Nice balance, very simple design, very easy to spar with in a 'heavy' lame underjacket/plastron for demo's.

In both cases we use representational 'weapons' as training tools and I have a few decades of experience as a competitor in weapons and weaponless combat arts.

These older medieval weapons are somewhat new territory, but the path to technical competence is familiar. Obviously, I'll have similarly representational training 'weapons' to learn swordsmanship, form and technique. But I don't need the same "take a few years" before deciding if I'll probably own a blade. That said, a blade, blunt or otherwise, is a process of armory education and choice, which is what this thread is part of.

J.D. Crawford wrote:

Second, as I guess you saw, the Kult of Athena site has statistics (including weight and distal taper) on all of the swords that would likely interest you.

I hadn't noticed the stats at KoH until this morning ("Thickness: 4.6 mm - 3 mm"), so I'll go back and look at a number of blades for comparisons.

J.D. Crawford wrote:

Regarding Darksword: people around here don't like them because of questionable business practices, odd claims, and inconsistent customer relations. They are also a bit pricey, based on the controversial claim that they are hand forged in Canada. But looking objectively at what they have (using stats on K0H...I gave up on them a while back), the standard 'Norman' is an odd looking thing from historical perspective and as said above has little distal taper. Interestingly, the 'Norman Practice Sword' (a blunt) is much more historical looking and has a much stronger distal taper (7.3 mm - 2.7 mm). The 'XII practice sword' has the same blade (more like a transitional Xa-XII) but has a Brazil Not pommel, also reasonably accurate. Both are a bit heavy like many blunts, but should handle OK with that distal taper. I nearly bought one myself for practice a while back, except their web site said you could order in two blade styles, and when I ordered they said that was not true (!!!????). I'd put more trust in ordering from K0H.

The advice on KOH has been helpful - I hadn't been aware that they were well regarded as a source and I tend to lean towards 'horses-mouth' purchasing rather than middle-men, so I might have missed that otherwise.

I'll give it a few more days to see if any current/recent DSA purchasers can offer an update on their handling characteristics, but perhaps silence is as much a measure of feedback as anything.

Please excuse my assumptions. You might get more feedback on DSA at the 'Sword Buyer's Guide' forum. They have their fans. (Not so much here where the focus is on historical accuracy.)

Considering the rather pronounced profile taper of the Waylander I'd say a 4.6 to 3mm distal taper over the rather short blade should be adequate enough. It's the combination that matters, after all.

For context: Maciej Kopciuch's marvelous Marienburg Longsword (http://artofswordmaking.com/gallery/marienburg-longsword-late-14thc) only goes from 4mm at the base (measured by yours truly a minute ago) to 2.5mm near the tip. Both have similar profile taper. I've fallen so much in love with the Marienburg Longsword that I've commissioned a blunt version with Maciej to emulate the handling of the sharp for training and light sparring.

At the 500 mark you have much better options. Most of their lineup is the same from when I had my first and last DSA and the only other person I know with one has never been happy with his either. The swords have no flex, poor balance, very overweight, no distal taper, and usually don't have a straight line or seam on them. The Scabbards do not fit the swords and are very crude once you have one in your hand with pretty poor leather quality. Grips are executed wrong; it's a proper cord wrapped grip yet the leather is not taut to the twine underneath. Their calling card of "durability" is... debatable... as well.

https://customswordshoppe.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=60&product_id=73
for less money you can get this. A true Type X properly executed with excellent scabbards and grips, a great cutting blade, and American made (versus allegedly forged in canada...)
[ Linked Image ]
https://www.facebook.com/Valiant-Armoury-Custom-Sword-Shoppe-105805759496056/
high res photos of most of thier models are available on their facebook page. Valiant Armory has been around for quite a while and has a very good, transparent, track record of producing excellent swords and scabbards.

Valiant Armory, Many of the new Hanwei Western swords, Del Tin (an old yet solid name in the sword community despite being a bit hefty), Arms&Armor, or a Albion Squire Line sword would serve you much better as a proper entrance into hema

I had the opportunity to handle a few models this last year. A couple of them were newer models and one model that's no more than a couple years old. I was not impressed with any of them. Overall, the fittings were poorly designed, having poor shapes, proportions, and weights. The dynamic properties were not very good for any of them with the 14th century sword being the worst. The Norman practice sword was probably the best of the lot.

There are better options out there. That's about all I'm gonna say.

That's my opinion. Mileage varies.

Since the DSA sword is already over $400, maybe you'd like to consider Albion's Squire Line 13th century sword instead at $479 or so. The $70-ish gap translates to a pretty considerable improvement in balance, fit, and finish.

As others have mentioned, you can do better. For what ever reason there is a fan base...even after thread after thread after thread has condemned Darksword for a number of reasons, you will still get plenty of people who are fans. I am not. For what they charge...you can do better. If you take all the drama and bad press out of the picture and start fresh right here and now, I still think they are overpriced for what you get. This is just my personal opinion.