Hi guys,
Out of curiosity, are there any documented examples of grete sverdes roughly fitting Type XIIa sporting Tea-Cosey, Brazil-Nut, or Cocked-Hat pommels?
Just curious, because I'm brainstorming (several years in advance) for a custom piece.
Hey, I can't sleep. What the heck else am I supposed to do with my annoyingly-active neurons? :p
| Jeremiah Swanger wrote: |
| Hi guys,
Out of curiosity, are there any documented examples of grete sverdes roughly fitting Type XIIa sporting Tea-Cosey, Brazil-Nut, or Cocked-Hat pommels? Just curious, because I'm brainstorming (several years in advance) for a custom piece. Hey, I can't sleep. What the heck else am I supposed to do with my annoyingly-active neurons? :p |
Hi Jeremiah,
I personally do not know of any XIIa with the pommel types you mention, but I found 2 swords that are almost grete sverdes with brazil nut pommels. one is Xa.10 from records. This sword has 37in blase and about 5.in handle. I think one can fit both hands on this grip.
The other example was discussed by Peter Johnsson on this post .
I hope that helps.
alexi
| Alexi Goranov wrote: |
|
Hi Jeremiah, I personally do not know of any XIIa with the pommel types you mention, but I found 2 swords that are almost grete sverdes with brazil nut pommels. one is Xa.10 from records. This sword has 37in blase and about 5.in handle. I think one can fit both hands on this grip. The other example was discussed by Peter Johnsson on this post . I hope that helps. alexi |
Hi Alexi,
Thanks for your response. I read the thread you linked and I guess it would be safe to say that if any great swords with the afore-mentioned pommel types did exist, they would be hideously rare. If they didn't seem to be popular until near the end of the 13th Century, at which point the popularity of said pommel types had begun to wane, at least according to "The Sword in the Age of Chivalry"...
I guess what sparked my imagination was the "12th Century Sword" by A&A, which featured a blade very close to Type XIIa, a Gaddhjalt cross, and an octagonal pommel that was found in various Viking graves dated to before the end of the first millennium. I was wondering if it was a lone example, or if there were others like it.
Stuff that exists before it was "supposed to", according to the archaeological record, has always fascinated me... :cool:
Hi Jeremiah, and everybody else,
Bellow are some drawings of swords, found in river Ljubljanica in Slovenia. They all date from 12. to 13.th century, almost pass for great swords due to their grip length, and they have the pommels you’re interested in.
They’re in pretty bad shape, but you can still get the general idea of their shapes and dimensions. Below I will try to translate some of the measurements. The book (Tomaz Nabergoj, Oboroženi stan srednjeveške družbe na slovenskem na osnovi materialnih virov. Primer: Meci, 2001) gives detailed description, a lot of measurements, x-ray photos of inlays, and much more.
Sword No. 8, T. 28.
Finding place: Ljubljanica, year 1982.
Description: Double edged steel sword, blade is broken and much corroded. Pommel is lenticular. Cross is straight and of a round section. Blade has a rhomboid cross section and has a fuller on both sides. On one side of tang are remains of wooden grip. Blade has incised decoration on both sides of blade – fish skeleton with a head, and there are some remains of a metal that was inlaid (copper).
Measurements:
length = 93,4 cm (36.7 inch), weight = 1375 g (3.03 pounds), grip length = 13,7 cm (5.4 inch), blade length = 75,1 cm (29.6 inch)
Datation: 12. century.
Sword No. 9, T. 2:9.
Description (after drawing!): Double edged steel sword, blade is broken and much corroded. Pommel is lenticular. Cross is straight and of a square section. Blade has a rhomboid cross section and has a fuller on both sides. On on both sides of tang are remains of wooden grip. Blade has incised decoration on both sides of blade – on one side is fish skeleton without a head, on other side fish skeleton with a head.
Measurements: item was not available for measurement.
Datation: 12. century.
Sword No. 10, T. 3:10.
Finding place: Ljubljanica, Crna vas, year 1992 or before.
Description: Double edged steel sword, blade is broken. Pommel is lenticular. Cross is straight and of a round section. Blade has a rhomboid cross section and has a fuller on both sides. Blade has incised decoration on both sides of blade – cross, remains of copper inlay are visible.
Measurements:
Length = 46,1 cm (18.1 inch), weight = 822 g (1.8 pounds), grip length = 12,7 cm (5 inch), blade length = 29,3 cm (11.5 inch).
Datation: 13. century.
Sword No. 11, T. 3:11.
Finding place: Ljubljanica, 80. years of 20. century.
Description: Double edged steel sword, cross is missing, blade is broken. Pommel is lenticular with narrow lower part. Blade has a rhomboid cross section and has a fuller on both sides. Blade has incised decoration on both sides of blade – cross, remains of bronze inlay are visible.
Measurements:
Length = 82,5 cm (32.5 inch), weight = 1010 g (2.2 pounds), grip length = 13,2 cm (5.2 inch), blade length = 65,2 cm (25.7 inch).
Datation: 12. century.
Sorry for all the errors in translation and unit conversion. I’m in a hurry right now, so that’s it. Enjoy.
Oh, and the drawings:
Attachment: 13.5 KB
Sword No. 11
Attachment: 20.18 KB
Sword No. 10
Attachment: 24.24 KB
Sword No. 9
Attachment: 14.19 KB
Sword No. 8
Bellow are some drawings of swords, found in river Ljubljanica in Slovenia. They all date from 12. to 13.th century, almost pass for great swords due to their grip length, and they have the pommels you’re interested in.
They’re in pretty bad shape, but you can still get the general idea of their shapes and dimensions. Below I will try to translate some of the measurements. The book (Tomaz Nabergoj, Oboroženi stan srednjeveške družbe na slovenskem na osnovi materialnih virov. Primer: Meci, 2001) gives detailed description, a lot of measurements, x-ray photos of inlays, and much more.
Sword No. 8, T. 28.
Finding place: Ljubljanica, year 1982.
Description: Double edged steel sword, blade is broken and much corroded. Pommel is lenticular. Cross is straight and of a round section. Blade has a rhomboid cross section and has a fuller on both sides. On one side of tang are remains of wooden grip. Blade has incised decoration on both sides of blade – fish skeleton with a head, and there are some remains of a metal that was inlaid (copper).
Measurements:
length = 93,4 cm (36.7 inch), weight = 1375 g (3.03 pounds), grip length = 13,7 cm (5.4 inch), blade length = 75,1 cm (29.6 inch)
Datation: 12. century.
Sword No. 9, T. 2:9.
Description (after drawing!): Double edged steel sword, blade is broken and much corroded. Pommel is lenticular. Cross is straight and of a square section. Blade has a rhomboid cross section and has a fuller on both sides. On on both sides of tang are remains of wooden grip. Blade has incised decoration on both sides of blade – on one side is fish skeleton without a head, on other side fish skeleton with a head.
Measurements: item was not available for measurement.
Datation: 12. century.
Sword No. 10, T. 3:10.
Finding place: Ljubljanica, Crna vas, year 1992 or before.
Description: Double edged steel sword, blade is broken. Pommel is lenticular. Cross is straight and of a round section. Blade has a rhomboid cross section and has a fuller on both sides. Blade has incised decoration on both sides of blade – cross, remains of copper inlay are visible.
Measurements:
Length = 46,1 cm (18.1 inch), weight = 822 g (1.8 pounds), grip length = 12,7 cm (5 inch), blade length = 29,3 cm (11.5 inch).
Datation: 13. century.
Sword No. 11, T. 3:11.
Finding place: Ljubljanica, 80. years of 20. century.
Description: Double edged steel sword, cross is missing, blade is broken. Pommel is lenticular with narrow lower part. Blade has a rhomboid cross section and has a fuller on both sides. Blade has incised decoration on both sides of blade – cross, remains of bronze inlay are visible.
Measurements:
Length = 82,5 cm (32.5 inch), weight = 1010 g (2.2 pounds), grip length = 13,2 cm (5.2 inch), blade length = 65,2 cm (25.7 inch).
Datation: 12. century.
Sorry for all the errors in translation and unit conversion. I’m in a hurry right now, so that’s it. Enjoy.
Oh, and the drawings:
Attachment: 13.5 KBSword No. 11
Attachment: 20.18 KBSword No. 10
Attachment: 24.24 KBSword No. 9
Attachment: 14.19 KBSword No. 8
To add to this list:
From Zurich Landesmuseum AG2465. 109cm overall length, 90 cm blade length, 16.5 cm grip (6.5in). Dated to 1200-1250.
A flat type N pommel and down turned type 1 guard. Blade XI (only half the blade is visible on the photograph).
Very nice looking sword
Alexi
From Zurich Landesmuseum AG2465. 109cm overall length, 90 cm blade length, 16.5 cm grip (6.5in). Dated to 1200-1250.
A flat type N pommel and down turned type 1 guard. Blade XI (only half the blade is visible on the photograph).
Very nice looking sword
Alexi
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