Greetings,

I was lurking around looking at armor parts, and then I noticed this;

http://effigiesandbrasses.com/1536/1541/

What gives?

Is this properly dated?

I google-fu'd my way around, but most of the data tied to it is in French.

The man it represents is indeed a 12th century person, but how could that possibly be his leg gear?

Could it be a really bad depiction of hosen and turnshoes? because everything else screams 1100s, expect his legs.

The greaves perhaps, but the footwear really looks like segmented plates.

Very strange indeed, as the earliest ones I know of show up in the 1280s./1290s.

In cases like this where out-of-the-ordinary details seem to be depicted, it is important to see the original effigy. 19th century illustrations were often fraught with errors despite all of the artists' best intentions. I have seen many effigies questioned about odd details based on illustrations, and it often turns out not to look much like the actual effigy at all in many cases.... In this case, I cannot find any photos of the effigy in question after a brief search.

-Gregory

I also failed to find any images of the effigy.

Seems like someone is going to have to go there and take some pics.

We need someone who lives near Saint-Benoît-la-Forêt :surprised:

Hi all,

the problem with effigies - especially with such ones depicting the founder of an abbey or monastery – that they can be carved post mortem, i.e. possibly some hundred years after the founder died.

The other thing is that figural effigies developped in the late 12th century. But only in the late 13th century they got more and more common.

Judging from the drawing this effigy is typical for the late 13th century and for France.

Cheers, Timm

http://effigiesandbrasses.com/about/

Quote:

About the Data This website is not a primary source, nor is it a secondary source. Instead, this website is a tertiary source; a compilation of information from secondary sources. Each monument is assigned a year. In the best case, this year is when the monument was created. Failing this, it is the year the represented person died. If even this is not available, an approximate year is assigned based on armour and monument characteristics. The monument's approximate year is clearly marked if this is the case.

The 12th century date is likely the date of death. The date of creation is more likely late 13th, or even early 14th century. And all of the cautions about relying on a line drawing rather than an actual photograph also stand, presuming the monument is still extant.