I deleted what was here. It was a sarcastic critique of a Deepeeka Maximilian harness. See 3rd reply/comment for a critique and apology. :)
Attachment: 23.42 KB
Last edited by D. Rosen on Mon 17 Jan, 2005 12:41 am; edited 1 time in total
I'm not sure you're going to get a lot of response from this. I'd much prefer to have a constructive conversation about these things that results in discussing what's not accurate about it, what could be improved, how well it fits within its price range, etc. The notion of sitting back and laughing at something like this paints us like elitist snobs and serves more to alienate people from our site more than pull them in and educate or entertain them.
I then apologize for my brashness and haste in betraying the true purpose of this forum. To be honest however, I have little experience with true weapons and armor and their handling, other than an MRL Baselard, JF Schneider/Mayhawke Katzbalger, a few shields, and a sugarloaf helm that I possess, replicated/antique arms I have handled at my Renaissance Faire/elsewhere, and displays in museums and the like. I am young, and have not had much chance to observe the things I would like to or participate in the activities I would like to (IE: ARMA/SCA), and most of my so-called knowledge comes from the many books I have read and demonstrations I have seen. So once again I apologize for tarnishing the reputation of this wonderful forum.
I will as you said, note the inaccuaracies. First of all, I am unsure of the price due to Deepeeka's wholesale only policy. I would assume that it most likely runs at the very least in the low $1,000's range. I suppose you get what you pay for, and it would seem that are better harnesses on the market for a similiar or slightly greater price. Many of Museum Replica's harnesses seem of a somewhat higher quality/accuracy than Deepeeka's work, although both companies are infamous for their many mishaps....I at the butt end of one of MRL's.
I suppose the most noticible problems with this suit of armour would be apparant to those who know a bit about armor, specifically armor of this period/style. i personally find the biggest problem to be in the sabatons(feet,ankles). Maximilian armor was a combination of more rounded Italian styles and the harsh German gothic, and its "feet" were no exception. Generally Maximilian armor had wide, somewhat splayed rounded sabatons (there was a rumor that this was done to provide the armor's designer Holy Roman Emperor Maximilian I extra space to accomodate a supposed 6th toe). As is apparant, the Deepeeka model possesses a boxy and very angular/polygonal foot region, which seems to draw attention away from more accuarate portions of the suit and wholly ruins the effect/aesthetic apperarance of this beautiful style of armor for me.
Next, it seems that its gauntlets are of a completely different style altogether. While the Maximilian armor did use mitten gauntless almost exclusively, the ones on the Deepeeka suit seem to be of an earlier more pointed Gothic style from the late 15th century. (See picture at bottom). Also, it would seem that the suit lacks a gorget or maile mantle to protect the throat. In accordance with this, the close helm itself seems a little awkward. One also notes the lack of 'fins' on the edges of the elbow and knee cops, a very short pauldron, as well as the use of maile in the groin region that appears very seldomly in armor of this type. On a high note, it seems that the fluting on the armor is done well and is more or less where it should be. The suit also lacks very articulated and sutibly rounded tassets/faulds. I do not know what Deepeeka's armor looks like in person, but in this picture the metal that the suit composes of appears to be tinny or of aluminum with an anachronistic finish.
The model in the photo seems somewhat unfomfortable, and due to this and despite many of Deepeeka's claims, I do not believe this armor to be specifically for functional/costume uses. The man also lacks a padded gambeson....or anything for that matter. Knights would wear hosen or chausses, a tunic, a gambeson, and light boots underneath their armor, and the man does not seem to be wearing anything at all. Perhaps this is done to suggest that a gambeson/clothing is not included, but the effect is not very good. Other than that, I do not see too many other problems with the armor from a spectator's view point. His armament however, is a different story. It is difficult to discern, but it appears he is holding a sword of early Celtic descent. It is possibly a baselard, which would also be somewhat out of place in armor (the Maximilian's landsknechts were bitter rivals of the baselard wielding Swiss mercenaries), but it seems more 'primitive' and looks like a celtic "man-hilted" sword. Finally, his shield is of an earlier period and had fallen out of general usage by the early 1500's or so that this armor originated in.
There you have it. The internet review of the Maximilian Harness by Deepeeka. Overall, I cannot say I'd purchase it had I the money. I am a fan of Maximilian's Landsknechts and this period, but this armor does not appear to be a good example of it. Thanks guys and thanks Nathan! Sorry for my prievious post. -Dan
PS: Thanks to Valentine Armouries, Deepeeka, and a few other sources I'll attach images from below.
Attachment: 23.42 KB
The Maximilian Harness in question, by Deepeeka
Attachment: 87.19 KB
A much more historically accurate version of this armor, with a more accurate weapon. [ Download ]
I will as you said, note the inaccuaracies. First of all, I am unsure of the price due to Deepeeka's wholesale only policy. I would assume that it most likely runs at the very least in the low $1,000's range. I suppose you get what you pay for, and it would seem that are better harnesses on the market for a similiar or slightly greater price. Many of Museum Replica's harnesses seem of a somewhat higher quality/accuracy than Deepeeka's work, although both companies are infamous for their many mishaps....I at the butt end of one of MRL's.
I suppose the most noticible problems with this suit of armour would be apparant to those who know a bit about armor, specifically armor of this period/style. i personally find the biggest problem to be in the sabatons(feet,ankles). Maximilian armor was a combination of more rounded Italian styles and the harsh German gothic, and its "feet" were no exception. Generally Maximilian armor had wide, somewhat splayed rounded sabatons (there was a rumor that this was done to provide the armor's designer Holy Roman Emperor Maximilian I extra space to accomodate a supposed 6th toe). As is apparant, the Deepeeka model possesses a boxy and very angular/polygonal foot region, which seems to draw attention away from more accuarate portions of the suit and wholly ruins the effect/aesthetic apperarance of this beautiful style of armor for me.
Next, it seems that its gauntlets are of a completely different style altogether. While the Maximilian armor did use mitten gauntless almost exclusively, the ones on the Deepeeka suit seem to be of an earlier more pointed Gothic style from the late 15th century. (See picture at bottom). Also, it would seem that the suit lacks a gorget or maile mantle to protect the throat. In accordance with this, the close helm itself seems a little awkward. One also notes the lack of 'fins' on the edges of the elbow and knee cops, a very short pauldron, as well as the use of maile in the groin region that appears very seldomly in armor of this type. On a high note, it seems that the fluting on the armor is done well and is more or less where it should be. The suit also lacks very articulated and sutibly rounded tassets/faulds. I do not know what Deepeeka's armor looks like in person, but in this picture the metal that the suit composes of appears to be tinny or of aluminum with an anachronistic finish.
The model in the photo seems somewhat unfomfortable, and due to this and despite many of Deepeeka's claims, I do not believe this armor to be specifically for functional/costume uses. The man also lacks a padded gambeson....or anything for that matter. Knights would wear hosen or chausses, a tunic, a gambeson, and light boots underneath their armor, and the man does not seem to be wearing anything at all. Perhaps this is done to suggest that a gambeson/clothing is not included, but the effect is not very good. Other than that, I do not see too many other problems with the armor from a spectator's view point. His armament however, is a different story. It is difficult to discern, but it appears he is holding a sword of early Celtic descent. It is possibly a baselard, which would also be somewhat out of place in armor (the Maximilian's landsknechts were bitter rivals of the baselard wielding Swiss mercenaries), but it seems more 'primitive' and looks like a celtic "man-hilted" sword. Finally, his shield is of an earlier period and had fallen out of general usage by the early 1500's or so that this armor originated in.
There you have it. The internet review of the Maximilian Harness by Deepeeka. Overall, I cannot say I'd purchase it had I the money. I am a fan of Maximilian's Landsknechts and this period, but this armor does not appear to be a good example of it. Thanks guys and thanks Nathan! Sorry for my prievious post. -Dan
PS: Thanks to Valentine Armouries, Deepeeka, and a few other sources I'll attach images from below.
Attachment: 23.42 KB
The Maximilian Harness in question, by Deepeeka
Attachment: 87.19 KB
A much more historically accurate version of this armor, with a more accurate weapon. [ Download ]
Last edited by D. Rosen on Mon 17 Jan, 2005 8:39 am; edited 2 times in total
Mr. Brian Price termed items of this sort as "medievalesc" in "Techniques of Medieval Arms Reproduction in the 14th Century" and I think what he meant by that is pretty accurate for the roll they fill. If your decorating a room or a house and looking to create atmosphere these items come in ata aprice point that works well for that . If your doing the period wedding thing again alot of these sorts of items come in at a very copacetic (sp) price . Alot depends on the desires of the user/owner. Depending on the price of the item a for use piece can run quite a bit more and if looks are all thats sought then items in this range are perfect. I think I could have scrounged a longsleeve black turtle neck for the model though.
We're all guilty at some point for making fun of or criticizing the low end maket. Nathan's right that we should add our comments or feedback in a more constructive manner. The last thing we need is to be put in a catagory of "sword snobs" and what better way to help the novice than to offer our experience and expertise. Your humble reactions are well appreciated. No harm done :D
Is it just me, or is he holding a replica La Tene sword?
Edit: In looking back over the original critique I see the sword was already mentioned.
David
Edit: In looking back over the original critique I see the sword was already mentioned.
David
Ok, more pictures of the armor.
Attachment: 13.39 KB
the earlier Gothic Style of armor
Attachment: 99.09 KB
Another good example of this armor.
Attachment: 14.36 KB
This one looks cool :)
Attachment: 13.39 KB
the earlier Gothic Style of armor
Attachment: 99.09 KB
Another good example of this armor.
Attachment: 14.36 KB
This one looks cool :)
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