Hello, I am new here and reading some very interesting articles. I am looking for a sword based on something that would have been in use in Britain in the mid 5th century by a Briton. From everything I have been able to find is that the earlier Viking swords, or Hanwei Saxon sword are the closest designs, correct?
I want a fully functional blade because, well, I want a real sword collectible, not a toy. I also want a pattern welded design at least obvious in the fuller, as I think it is a beautiful look. Most of what I have seen out there is very expensive, but I found the Hanwei Godfred Viking Sword which seems like a good affordable option. I have read a little that the Saxon is a better option but I can't find it for sale. Why is it better?
Are there any other good options? If I end up with the Godfred, I would like to replace the hilt, grip and pommel. Is this a reasonably easy project?
Thanks!
I haven't seen any 5th century blades with such wide single fullers like on Hanwei Saxon. These are typical for later swords. 5th century is very early for such a blade. If I am wrong I would be happy to see similar blade of so early date.
That may be true. Do you have any suggestions for something closer to the time period?
| Sean Page wrote: |
| I am looking for a sword based on something that would have been in use in Britain in the mid 5th century by a Briton. ! |
Then you're out of luck I'm afraid, as there are no surviving examples of British swords from the 5th century.
The British were, for the most part, Christian in the 5th century so they didn't bury their dead with grave goods.
You've got two options really.
1) Look to Irish weapons of the period (which have very distinctive blade shapes and will require commissioning), as at least two Irish tribes were active in Britain in the 5th century (not just as invaders, there's a possibility that some were in positions of power)
2) Look at mid-fifth century blades from a wider context. The best candidate from Britain would be the Feltwell spatha, which was hidden in the hypocaust of a bathhouse. Probably brought to the country by a Germanic warrior (possibly invader, possibly foederati), the blade, hilt and scabbard fittings are well preserved. The organic hilt fittings (wood or horn) have not survived.
Here's the drawing from the site report. I've got some photos as well if you're interested. It's on display in the Norwich Castle Museum.
Attachment: 120.83 KB[ Download ]
That is good information, thanks!
Would you happen to have any links to appropriate Irish swords of the time?
Would you happen to have any links to appropriate Irish swords of the time?
Cameron's Sheaths and Scabbards in England AD400-1000 is a fine resource.
| Harry Marinakis wrote: |
| Cameron's Sheaths and Scabbards in England AD400-1000 is a fine resource. |
It is, but not for any British weapons of the period.
Sean, the subject of early medieval Irish weapons has been discussed here before. This thread is a good place to start:-
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=16016
Interesting, thanks!
| Matthew Bunker wrote: |
| It is, but not for any British weapons of the period. |
??????
Why not?
| Harry Marinakis wrote: | ||
?????? Why not? |
Because there's a difference between British and English...especially in the early medieval period.
Cameron's book only covers 'Anglo-Saxon' (ie English) items.
Learn something new every day...
Matthew Bunker wrote
A question of terminology then so I can be clear on this for myself. In the early medieval period, to about 600 AD, "British" or Romano-British would be used for anything from the period before the Anglo-Saxon (and obviously, later, Norse) settlements, all the way back to pre-Roman times. Then "British" is not a useful or even strictly correct term to describe weaponry or culture until the Acts of Union beginning in 1600's. In between we can differentiate between Anglo-Saxon, Irish, Hiberno-Scots, Norse/Viking, Norman, English, Scottish. Is this understanding correct?
For Sean, I've found I.M. Stead's book British Iron Age Swords and Scabbards a useful, though expensive and somewhat technical resource. Not all the swords are pattern-welded though. For Irish Swords, I recently got "Studies on Early Ireland" with an essay "A Classification of Pre-Viking Irish Iron Swords" by Etienne Rynne, though my copy is used and was difficult to find. The link Matthew Bunker provided has an overview of the info. After I have a chance to read it, I'll be happy to post anything interesting I find not covered in the link.
Finally, for everyone, I'm also interested in the impact on Britain from the Franks in this time. I think there is strong evidence of Frankish trade and settlement to at least the southern coast and Kent area of England. If there are some good resources on swords in the time period 400 to 600 AD, this would be another helpful thing for both Sean and I. Certainly there are pattern-welded swords in Frankish territory, some of which probably were used in England.
I do not think the Irish swords with such distinctive blade shapes were pattern-welded, but I may find out otherwise shortly, or someone here might know.
| Quote: |
| Because there's a difference between British and English...especially in the early medieval period. |
A question of terminology then so I can be clear on this for myself. In the early medieval period, to about 600 AD, "British" or Romano-British would be used for anything from the period before the Anglo-Saxon (and obviously, later, Norse) settlements, all the way back to pre-Roman times. Then "British" is not a useful or even strictly correct term to describe weaponry or culture until the Acts of Union beginning in 1600's. In between we can differentiate between Anglo-Saxon, Irish, Hiberno-Scots, Norse/Viking, Norman, English, Scottish. Is this understanding correct?
For Sean, I've found I.M. Stead's book British Iron Age Swords and Scabbards a useful, though expensive and somewhat technical resource. Not all the swords are pattern-welded though. For Irish Swords, I recently got "Studies on Early Ireland" with an essay "A Classification of Pre-Viking Irish Iron Swords" by Etienne Rynne, though my copy is used and was difficult to find. The link Matthew Bunker provided has an overview of the info. After I have a chance to read it, I'll be happy to post anything interesting I find not covered in the link.
Finally, for everyone, I'm also interested in the impact on Britain from the Franks in this time. I think there is strong evidence of Frankish trade and settlement to at least the southern coast and Kent area of England. If there are some good resources on swords in the time period 400 to 600 AD, this would be another helpful thing for both Sean and I. Certainly there are pattern-welded swords in Frankish territory, some of which probably were used in England.
I do not think the Irish swords with such distinctive blade shapes were pattern-welded, but I may find out otherwise shortly, or someone here might know.
| J. Nicolaysen wrote: | ||
Matthew Bunker wrote
A question of terminology then so I can be clear on this for myself. In the early medieval period, to about 600 AD, "British" or Romano-British would be used for anything from the period before the Anglo-Saxon (and obviously, later, Norse) settlements, all the way back to pre-Roman times. Then "British" is not a useful or even strictly correct term to describe weaponry or culture until the Acts of Union beginning in 1600's. In between we can differentiate between Anglo-Saxon, Irish, Hiberno-Scots, Norse/Viking, Norman, English, Scottish. Is this understanding correct? . |
In the context of this discussion, in the post-Roman/early medieval period, "British" should be thought of as an umbrella term for the native inhabitants of Britain as opposed to the non-natives (from the various Scando-Germanic, Irish etc tribes).
It's not a particularly accurate umbrella term, given the complexity and lack of cohesive identity which existed in Britain in the power-vacuum left after the collapse of Imperial control, but it's no worse an umbrella term than "Anglo-Saxon" when describing the myriad tribes which made up the Germanic incomers, which is why I prefer 'English' (or 'Englisc' if you want to be pretentious about it).
| Quote: |
| or 'Englisc' if you want to be pretentious about it |
Oh good I'll use that at the next social! Always nice to have the pretentious option at hand. ;) Thanks for the other stuff as well.
Sean, I'm not sure you can find a pattern-welded blade from this time period short of custom work. The 'Migration era' blades I see at a place like Kult of Athena don't have the right steel. Wulflund has some nice things but none of them are right either. If you did find something, the "pattern welding" might really be etching, not a different type of steel construction.
Page 1 of 1
You cannot post new topics in this forumYou cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
All contents © Copyright 2003-2006 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Full-featured Version of the forum
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Full-featured Version of the forum