Hello everybody! I've been a lurker for a while, had the intention of joining and now I'm here with my first thread and post! :)


I practice HEMA and I've just begun a reenactment career.
One day I decided to read up on the side sword, but got derailed and found myself on a wikipedia page regarding the type of sword called "espada ropera".
So, the page said their origin is 1450ish Spain, I've been looking around a lot(but my google fu failed me), are there any finds, paintings or the like of pre 16th century "espada ropera"?
Since I'm a 15th cenrury reenactor, it is important that it comes from that time, it'd be quite amusing to use this in my club's usual practice, see how it fares against blossfechten longsword, and I.33, heh.

I hope this thread is within regulations, thank you all on beforehand. :)

From what I can tell "espada ropera" translates as "robe sword" ( I am assuming that ropera has the same etymological roots as the English word "robe", though I have no training in linguistics and exactly zero knowledge of Spanish). Assuming that this is the case, searching out "civilian dress sword" might yield better results. Take this with a grain of salt though.

I believe "Espada ropera" refers to swords that are early forms of rapier, here in the sense of a sword with the beginnings of a complex hilt rather than the classic, narrow bladed rapiers of the late 16th and 17th centuries.

Here is a photo of Del Tin's DT5160, which they call an Espado Ropera. Early 16th century with a simple compound hilt.

In my opinion, not one of Del Tin's better efforts.

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DT5160

http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=19588&view=next

You may need to search museum collections. The Wallace Collection has a good online datebase.

In mid 15th century you don't have much complex hilts yet, maybe an occasional finger ring like on a famous Alexandria type XIX sword... tizona style hilt is also probably mid 15th century spanish... Other than that, you are safest with a simple type XVIII single hander with wheel pommel and curved cross, similar to Henri V sword...

The Arms and Armor Serenissima may be one of the best espado ropera replicas.

The "robe sword" thing is in the wikipedia article.


I'm abroad, with a weak Wifi on a buggy iPhone, that might be one of the reasons for my... Limited access to research. xD


Also, I'm a bit of a beginner, the Oakshott classifications haven't really stuck in my head, heh.


That collection of images is rather nice, are they 15th century?



It is quite important that the model, image, depictions, replica, relic, whatever is 15th century... So far I've only found "early 16th century" ones.

Also, how was the so called "espada ropeda" dated to mid 15th century? Mentioned in texts, are there manuals from that time?


Thank you all for the quick responses! :)

With the Oakeshott example, the description relates to the late 15th century. The term itself widely discarded in the early 16th century and only in later centuries revived to describe the early slim single hand swords. All the names really relate as much to the swordsmanship styles as the swords themselves.

Quote:

Since I'm a 15th cenrury reenactor, it is important that it comes from that time, it'd be quite amusing to use this in my club's usual practice, see how it fares against blossfechten longsword, and I.33, heh.

Basically, you are looking at using a longer slim single hand sword against the other weapons systems. Essentially, evolution of 1.33 to say Silver comparing fighting on an uneven level. Silver's two hand and single hand sword of the same blade length. There is a lot of single hand play in Fiore, the differences again in your projection a longsword vs a lighter single hand sword. A lot of the basic principles remain the same.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFXoaQYb_j4

Cheers

GC