Greetings everyone,

I'm putting together a Billman Kit roughly dated to the Wars of the Roses, Second half of the 15th century.
Obviously that needs a bill, wouldn't be much of a billman otherwise, right?

However there seem to be very few makers who supply English bills. I've seen loads of Italian ones, some French ones and the occasional Bill-Halberd-Hybrid, but the only makers I have managed to find which offer English Bills of the rack so to speak are Arms&Armor and Coldsteel.

Now the A&A one is - judging by the pictures, I've handled neither - better looking, got the better shape and is (I'm assuming) of far better quality. It is however also three times as expensive.

The Coldsteel version would need some work, first of all getting rid of that blasted black paint and most likely reworking the attachment of the socket to the shaft, having it held on the shaft with a screw is likely to be the standard and not acceptable.
The overall shape seems to be pretty good for the price. But given that it is a Coldsteel 2014 product, it may be 2020 before anyone actually get's their hand on one of these.

Has anyone managed to get hold of one of these CS bills - I think the man-at-arms Line might be a re-release of some old stuff? I'm not familiar enough with CS to know their old backlog - and are they any good?
Or do you know of any other makers that produce the classic English bill - I could go custom but at the moment I'd rather safe myself the hassle - at a reasonable price either sharp or blunt?

This isn't really a pressing issue right now - the kit is far from complete or at least not where I want it to be, so I have enough other opportunities to spend money before the bill is added - but I'm a bit stumped for other makers to look out for right now.

Of course cost is a factor, but the A&A English Bill is very impressive. I had one customized with hardened edges and mounted it myself.

Having the head made and shipped by itself and mounting it myself saved a bit on the shipping costs, although the customizing of the head increased the price a little bit compared to the standard product.

You might find this Topic thread interesting, even if you still decide to find another source for an English Bill: There are some interesting posts by Craig and others worth reading.

http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...highlight=


With the cold steel one removing the finish and refinishing it like mine should make it look a lot more period.
The screw assembly is not historical by any means, but the hole in the socket could still be used with a simulated period nail or iron/steel pin.

Hi Marik

I have sent you a PM which might help you.

Regards
Stuart

Weapons of Warre contains detailed stats and photos of original English bills and shows a step-by-step process for recreating the type. You could make a pattern in cardboard and probably any competent smith could then make it for you. See the information and images I posted here:

http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...mp;start=0

Thanks for your responses, I'll look into those threads once more.

I actually thought about trying my hand at making one - at least one that looks the part, as a costume piece for the kit - but with absolutely zero experience in any form of metalworking and no idea how to properly attach the socket I gave up on that idea fairly quickly.

I'd recommend finding a blacksmith to make you one rather than buying a mass produced one. It should still work out cheaper then A&A when you take shopping and duty into account and you will be able to choose exactly how you want it to look.

Try Andy Kirkham. andrew.akirkham@googlemail.com or Paul Binns. http://www.paul-binns-swords.co.uk for a high end reproduction that looks and feels like the real thing, if you're looking for cheaper contact Wieland forge. http://www.wielandforge.co.uk

Hope that helps

Thanks guys, that's exactly what I wanted, more options to check out and chose from. I really appreciate it.
You can never have too many bookmarked blacksmiths websites, can you?

I'd be delighted to see a review of those polearms.
For now I'm going mad staring at the parcel tracking for a Bill I've bought off a fellow Forum Member, but I'd be curious how - if at all - accurate the CS version is.

I've got their boar spear - the black painted one, I think there is a new version of that out now - and it's sort of meh. Not a bad meh, but meh none the less.

I've hit a bit of a brick wall.

I have the head and I'm really happy with it, but I have the hardest time finding Ash for a proper haft.

The timber dealer who promised me to get a piece apparently completely forgot about that - or wasn't planning on keeping that end of the deal in the first place which leaves me quite miffed as I've been waiting for almost 2 weeks for that promised wood - and none of the local carpenters use Ash for anything and thus have nothing in stock that I could cut myself a piece from.

Basically the only thing I could get are complete planks but those are 6m long and 2" thick, which is quite a bit more than I need and understandably the dealers themselves are unwilling to cut into their merchandise for me because that would leave them with a marred board to sell.

Premade handles - for example for a shovel - from the hardware store either don't have the right dimensions, are ergonomically curved or simply aren't ash to begin with.

I know there are a couple of threads about this already and the problem is not uncommon, but maybe someone has come up with a nice solution for this in the meantime - most of the Threads are on the older side of things.

Alternatively, any woods that might be (almost) equally suited and easier to obtain?

Hi there
I'm not sure about Germany but when I wanted some ash spear shafts in the UK I attended the nearest reenactors fair or market. There were plenty to choose from both perfect round lathe turned and much rougher pieces from the branch.
When I lived in New Zealand it was necessary to purchase an ash plank and have it ripped into square poles then "dowelled" to make them round.
I am sure there are other woods that will do for polearm hafts, but ash is the prefered one. Oak is way to heavy and brittle, the various pine species just too weak.
Are you going to actually take the field in this persona???
Phil

I'd like the piece to be field-ready even if I'm not going to use it as such.

I haven't seen any shafts on the faires I've been to recently but I'll keep an eye out for some - thank god it's high season for those, lots to choose from - until then I'm going to do some more calling and try to find a carpenter that might be less local but has the wood I'm after.

An added worry is that ash trees seem to be dying, I think there's a critter called the emerald ash borer that is systematically wiping them out. If you ever think you might want to haft some pole arms you might ought to look into getting the appropriate wood now. I've got about a dozen poles from a tree a friend cut down a year ago.. and two A&A spears and a A&A halberd I still have yet to haft. Not enough hours in the day...

There's really no reason to go to heat treating or hardened edges. See Williams, Dr. Alan R. & J. G. O'hara, The Technology of a 16th Century Staff Weapon. They broke up an Italian bill into 8 pieces and analyzed it: The metallurgy is complete junk. Remember bills were mass produced for common infantrymen.

And as so often in life, persistence pays off.

Or to put it in a non-optional joke, I've got wood! ;)

Took a fair bit of phoning around and wasn't quite local but I got a nice piece of Ash.
A bit thinner than I would have liked - thick enough for the shaft but thin enough so I don't get much leeway in making it - and a bit broader than I need it to be, but I only paid 5€ for it so I'm absolutely not complaining.

Well I'm done for now.

I might rework the profile of the shaft a bit on some future rainy day, but for now I'm very, very pleased with how it came out especially since this is the first handle of this kind I made.

Overall length of the piece is ~90" or 2.25m and while it does sort of look round on photo the handle is actually a rounded rectangle. I noticed the wood as a very slight bend to it but not enough to be a problem I think.

[ Linked Image ]

The long handle makes the head look quite small, which is deceiving - it certainly had me surprised when it first arrived. The Head alone from socket to point is actually longer than the distance from my fingertips to the elbow.

[ Linked Image ]

Out of all the replicas I've handled - be they sharps or blunts of any sort - this one is the first piece that has me intimidated. I feels fantastically vicious.

Marik, you have done a superb job on that haft, it's looking really good :cool:

Just need to stain the haft now with a nice handful of soil and linseed oil, liberally rubbed in.