In Europe, when exactly did two-handed swords fall out of use, and which types of swords were they? I'm referring to both swords which could only be wielded in two hands (e.g. "true" two-handers such as the German zweihander) as well as swords which could held used in one hand, but were intended for two-handed use (such as the longsword and some "messer" swords). What were the last European swords to be wielded in both hands?

Donald Lupton mentioned Swiss two-handed swords in his 1642 treatise against the pike. (He considered pikes ill-suited for warfare dominated by gunpowder weapons.) I don't know much beyond that as my research focuses on the 16th century and earlier.

I believe some two handed swords were carried during the 1745 Jacobite Rising that ended at Culloden. I say carried, it is unclear if they were actually used.

According to some info in this thread, they remained in service for naval use at least well into 17th century.

The last works I know of are two from 1711, Carlo Giuseppe Colombani and Giuseppe Alessandro.

The most recent instance I remember, short of that guy they found in afghanistan trying to kill bin laden (he had a 2 handed sword with him for some reason, but the crazed are... well crazed) would be "The American Hercules" Peter francisco

http://www.historynet.com/peter-francisco-ame...r-hero.htm

below is a probably horrible recreation of the massive sword george washington commissioned for the American mountain, which at the Battle of Guilford Court House he used to decapitate a british regular from horseback.

[ Linked Image ]

Lin Robinson wrote:
The last evidence of actual use of these swords dates to Killiecrankie in 1689 [quote].

I have been doing some research on the history of 2-handed swords and am aware of the alleged use of such in the Jacobite rebellions. I haven't found any evidence for their use even at Killiecrankie, so I would be very grateful, Lin, if you could refer me to your evidence. General Mackay's memoirs describe Highlanders fighting typically with broad sword and targe, and when the term 'claymore' is used it clearly refers to the basket-hilt broad sword. References to 2-handers in 1679 and 1716 are to their being surrendered under the Disarming Acts, not to their use in battle. So I would be most interested in any evidence of battle/fighting use after c.1650. Thanks.
Neil

[quote="Neil Melville"]Lin Robinson wrote:
The last evidence of actual use of these swords dates to Killiecrankie in 1689

Quote:

. I have been doing some research on the history of 2-handed swords and am aware of the alleged use of such in the Jacobite rebellions. I haven't found any evidence for their use even at Killiecrankie, so I would be very grateful, Lin, if you could refer me to your evidence. General Mackay's memoirs describe Highlanders fighting typically with broad sword and targe, and when the term 'claymore' is used it clearly refers to the basket-hilt broad sword. References to 2-handers in 1679 and 1716 are to their being surrendered under the Disarming Acts, not to their use in battle. So I would be most interested in any evidence of battle/fighting use after c.1650. Thanks. Neil

Neil...

The evidence of the use of the two-handed sword at Killiecrankie has to be considered anecdotal but some does appear in Rob Roy MacGregor, His Life and Times by W. H. Murray. This is a highly readable book which I recommend, if you have not seen it or read it already. In the chapter on Rob's participation at Killiecrankie is a quote which has as its source, an officer in the army (the author) Memoirs of The Lord Viscount Dundee, from 1714. That can probably be considered as a primary source on the subject. The quote is:

(Speaking of the assault by Dundee's Highlanders) ..."Mackay's men 'were cut down through the skull and neck to the breasts, others had skulls cut off above the ears like nightcaps; some had bodies and cross belts cut through at a blow; pikes and small swords were cut like willows.'"

Not knowing who wrote this, Mackay perhaps, I cannot say that this is a verbatim quote and I have seen these statements before in various works, worded slightly differently.

The above is a fairly well-known quote which you have seen before based on your comments. There is also in this work, a sentence just prior to the above quote which says, "Donald Glas (Macgregor), Alasdair Dubh (MacDonald) of Glengarry, and several others who wielded the two-handed claymore (sic) - its last appearance on a battlefield - did terrible execution." This comes from History of Highland Dress, by John Telfer Dunbar, 1962. This certainly is not a primary source and I would be curious, if I had a copy of this book, to see where Mr. Dunbar got his information. Perhaps a forumite does have a copy and can enlighten us.

The near-contemporary statements regarding the wounds which Mackay's casualties suffered in the battle, to me a least, indicate the presence of something a bit heavier than the basket-hilt claymore although as the owner of several of those things I can appreciate their capabilities as well. For a sword to cut a man's head open cleanly above the ears or to strike from the crown clear through to the breast there has to be considerable force behind the blow a lot of which must come from the mass of the blade. It just seems to me that if there were two-handers on the field that this is a description of their work. We know that Dundee's army was not well-equipped with firearms so there is a supportable case for his troops bringing whatever weapons they could find. That could well have included two-handed swords which were probably still plentiful at that time.

The use of "claymore" to describe the two-hander has been discussed on this forum numerous times and there is very little likelihood that the sword was ever referred to in that manner during its heyday. I used to explain the difference to anyone who asked at a Highland gathering but have mostly given up since the word has been so firmly tied to the two-hander by the media.

Any way, I hope this does provide some support, no matter how nebulous, for the idea that a few two-handers were probably in use as late as Killiecrankie. Certainly, if there, they were in the hands of a very few.

Hi Lin, many thanks for for your speedy and detailed reply. I didn't know of the 'Officer in the Army' memoirs of Dundee, so that description is good material. Dunbar's book I know of but don't possess, but I should be able to find it in the library.
If I do, and if he gives his source, I'll let you know. I tend to agree with your inference about such savage wounds being inflicted by something more massive than a basket-hilt broadsword. I have Stevenson's 'Life of Rob Roy', but he is doubtful whether RR was even present at Killiecrankie, let alone what size of sword he was wielding.
But thanks again - your info is most useful.
Neil