Hello all! I have a few questions for you. Aesthetically, I have come to appreciate tunics, robes, kilts, and all such garments. When I train with my swords, I like to get into the right mindset and clothing I wear affects that as well. I happen to own a wool viking tunic and a green cotton tunic but the green tunic is a little too small and the viking tunic is much too warm. Getting to the point, I would love to just wear a kilt and a shirt but cannot afford a tunic at the moment. I do, however, have some smaller bits of fabric so I was wondering if some sort of war or battle skirt would be feasible and historical. I had been considering wearing some form of cloth skirt over my armor once I had bought or made some, so I did a quick google search about armor skirts and found very little. I did, however, find these links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bases_(fashion)
and
http://www.metmuseum.org/collections/search-the-collections/22285
These both say that there were cloth and plate skirts known as bases. First real question: Is this word pronounced in the usual English way, or in some other way? Next, do any of you have any more detailed information on these particular items, perhaps even some photos of historical pieces in steel and in cloth?
Thank you!
Try googling "King Henry Tonlet".
Victor, You just gave me an awesome idea for a 'armored kilt'....or maybe a 'kilt-of-plates'. Would need some suspenders, though, to avoid an embarrassing moment. :lol: I usually practice my moves in a kilt, just for the freedom of movement it allows. One can never have too much leg and groin protection. :D ..........McM
If someone builds one before I do, and you get rich selling them.....you owe me royalties! :lol: :lol: .........McM
Matthew P. Adams wrote: |
Try googling "King Henry Tonlet". |
I found that and it was a beautiful kit indeed! I really liked it! The tonlet really does look like it would be great for protection with how it seems to have been able to redirect blows away from the legs! However, I am considering the cloth bases which would have been worn over armor before the steel ones came into fashion. Sometimes they were attached to a doublet and sometimes they were just wrapped around the waist over armor. I am, however, interested in both.
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Mark Moore wrote: |
Victor, You just gave me an awesome idea for a 'armored kilt'....or maybe a 'kilt-of-plates'. Would need some suspenders, though, to avoid an embarrassing moment. :lol: I usually practice my moves in a kilt, just for the freedom of movement it allows. One can never have too much leg and groin protection. :D ..........McM |
I do not currently own a kilt but I hope to buy one of the less expensive utility kilts once I have the money and I would love to practice my forms in it!
Actually, I was just today considering making a plated kilt or skirt and was also considering making one with heavily padded panels with interior straps to hold them to the legs but with plenty of cloth folds between the panels for ease of movement. Not at all historical, this idea, but would give me the aesthetic I desire and extra padding for the legs! I am, however, hoping to find a historical example to reproduce due to historical interest.
Are there any old renaissance paintings which would suggest a base being worn whether with doublet or without?
I'd be interested to know if there is any evidence of leg armor being worn under a kilt. ....?.......McM
Mark Moore wrote: |
I'd be interested to know if there is any evidence of leg armor being worn under a kilt. ....?.......McM |
I have not been able to find any evidence of this. Apparently the lowland nobility who would have worn plate armor seemed to have nothing but disdain for kilts which were only worn by highlanders at the time. It was considered barbaric to wear a kilt, apparently. Let's do it! Wear a kilt over your armor!
It is actually called a "tonlet"...you can find multiple pics here:
https://www.google.com/search?q=tonlet+armor+pics&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=-mEwU-X8C4ec2AW9qIHoBw&ved=0CCYQsAQ&biw=1024&bih=625
and here:
https://www.google.com/search?q=tonlet+armour+pics&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=amIwU-ujEKeA2gXQigE&ved=0CCQQsAQ&biw=1024&bih=625
OOOps...just noticed Matthew P. Adams beat me to it.
https://www.google.com/search?q=tonlet+armor+pics&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=-mEwU-X8C4ec2AW9qIHoBw&ved=0CCYQsAQ&biw=1024&bih=625
and here:
https://www.google.com/search?q=tonlet+armour+pics&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=amIwU-ujEKeA2gXQigE&ved=0CCQQsAQ&biw=1024&bih=625
OOOps...just noticed Matthew P. Adams beat me to it.
I'm down with that, Victor! I think it would look cool as hell to wear plate and a kilt to the Ren-Fests. History-correct......no. But, if it looks cool and your woman thinks it's hot....... ;) :lol: ...........McM
Phil D. wrote: |
It is actually called a "tonlet"...you can find multiple pics here:
https://www.google.com/search?q=tonlet+armor+pics&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=-mEwU-X8C4ec2AW9qIHoBw&ved=0CCYQsAQ&biw=1024&bih=625 and here: https://www.google.com/search?q=tonlet+armour+pics&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=amIwU-ujEKeA2gXQigE&ved=0CCQQsAQ&biw=1024&bih=625 OOOps...just noticed Matthew P. Adams beat me to it. |
Are the cloth skirts worn over armor in the period fashion also known as tonlet?
Mark Moore wrote: |
I'm down with that, Victor! I think it would look cool as hell to wear plate and a kilt to the Ren-Fests. History-correct......no. But, if it looks cool and your woman thinks it's hot....... ;) :lol: ...........McM |
Go on ahead! Lol--Most people going to a ren fest don't really care whether what they are wearing is historically accurate or not. In fact, we get assassins, storm troopers, Legend of Zelda characters, etc. through ours all the time! In fact I heard a story once about a storm trooper wearing a kilt!
fabric skirts worn in the late 15th/early 16th cent are known as' bases'.
The highland kilt has no connection, nor was it ever worn with armour. Not that that will stop people :-)
The highland kilt has no connection, nor was it ever worn with armour. Not that that will stop people :-)
Mark Griffin wrote: |
fabric skirts worn in the late 15th/early 16th cent are known as' bases'.
The highland kilt has no connection, nor was it ever worn with armour. Not that that will stop people :-) |
Yes sir, I had found that they were called bases, but I do not know anything else about them. Can you help me here?
depends what you want to know.... they mimic the steel ones of course. Or is it the other way round?
Met Museum : http://images.metmuseum.org/CRDImages/aa/web-...156800.jpg
some cloth ones (could be part of or seperate to the upper body cloth covering) http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons...ndarme.jpg
couple of views of the one in the Tower
http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/236x/2a/e2/...43cad7.jpg
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/41676/41676-h/images/img31.jpg
http://www.royalarmouries.org/assets-uploaded...K-ii.5.jpg
The ones i wear for early 16th cent jousting are open at front and rear and attached to a waistband. Its sometimes easier to put on after mounting but either is possible.
Griff
Met Museum : http://images.metmuseum.org/CRDImages/aa/web-...156800.jpg
some cloth ones (could be part of or seperate to the upper body cloth covering) http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons...ndarme.jpg
couple of views of the one in the Tower
http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/236x/2a/e2/...43cad7.jpg
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/41676/41676-h/images/img31.jpg
http://www.royalarmouries.org/assets-uploaded...K-ii.5.jpg
The ones i wear for early 16th cent jousting are open at front and rear and attached to a waistband. Its sometimes easier to put on after mounting but either is possible.
Griff
and you can see clearly where there are holes for a band to be attached so they can have a lining added too, pretty important.
Liking this pic:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f2/Gendarmes.jpg
I'd hazzard a guess that some of the horses have painted leather armour.
Liking this pic:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f2/Gendarmes.jpg
I'd hazzard a guess that some of the horses have painted leather armour.
Mark Griffin wrote: |
and you can see clearly where there are holes for a band to be attached so they can have a lining added too, pretty important.
Liking this pic: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f2/Gendarmes.jpg I'd hazzard a guess that some of the horses have painted leather armour. |
That is a very nice picture! I will be studying it more later! Do you know if bases were ever worn without armor? Are there examples of cloth bases worn in every day wear separate from a doublet? I know they are generally attached to the doublet but I remember reading that the armor ones can be worn without.
Hi I am afraid I cant really claim to no much, if indeed anything on this particular topic although I did find this rather interesting Picture. I hope it helps.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/canecrabe/528440...21996@N00/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/canecrabe/528440...21996@N00/
Dominic P. wrote: |
Hi I am afraid I cant really claim to no much, if indeed anything on this particular topic although I did find this rather interesting Picture. I hope it helps.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/canecrabe/528440...21996@N00/ |
Thank you, Dominic! That is useful indeed! There seems to be little information on the topic, at least through search engines, but pictures help!
base coats are part of civilian fashion at the time. The more cloth and pleats the more you are showing off what wealth you have.
more info available from here:
http://www.tudortailor.com/
more info available from here:
http://www.tudortailor.com/
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