Hi all,

Does anyone know when mail mittens went out of fashion in favor of mail/plate gauntlets? Same for ventails, when did they fall out of use? I can't remember seeing any past the early 14th century but I couldn't say when the 'cut off' point was.

Was there any difference in the period of use between mittens/coifs which were integrated with he hauberk versus those which were not?

Thanks,

Ian

Not sure about the cutoff time - but I can suggest some reasoning.

Ventails were simply a way of closing the coif around the neck/chin. They are only really needed on coifs which need to open at the neck. Coifs only really needed to open at the front of the neck when they were integrated to the hauberk - providing the only way to 'remove' the coif withour taking the whole hauberk off.

If the coif is not integrated, you simply pull it over the head - so there is no need for it to open at the front of the neck and can be shaped to cover the neck/chin.

So I expect that ventails largely disappeared soon after seperate coifs appeared at the tail end of c13. The only exception I can see is where the ventail covers the mouth rather than the neck and it opens for talking/eating/drinking. - one of those personal preference things I guess.

For mittens, I'm not sure if there ever were any seperate mail mittens.. Mail hand protection appeared as an extension of the hauberk, and I suspect only disappeared when they were replaced by early plate gauntlets.

Integral mail mittens became common around the mid to late 12c and remained in use until the 2nd quarter of the 14c (although I'm not the best person here to comment on 14c dates)
Integral coifs were in use at Hastings, and although the shape/style of ventail changed - they were used up to the late 13c (Although some seperate coifs were seen as early as the mid 13c in germany)

Hi Ian,

just some contemporary sources for you:

Separate coifs were worn as early as 1250 in german lands (Mainzer Evangeliar).
Separate maille mittens are at least depicted in the Codex Manesse (Heidelberger Liederhandschrift), created between 1300 to 1340 in Zurich..

Have fun,
Thomas

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Mainzer Evangeliar, 1250

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Codex Manesse, 1300-1340 [ Download ]

That's very interesting on the Mittens.. They have fingers too. The mail coifs also look very strange in that image.

Hi Brian,

these coifs are after a german fashion made with a rectangular lower seam. Such coifs can also be seen on the statue of St. Maurice (dated 1250-1300) or in the manuscript dt. Ms. Add. 17687, now in the British Library (1280).

Regards,
Thomas