Patrick Kelly wrote: |
Gus,
First; I think you're getting a bit defensive with some of your remarks when there's no need. While this did seem to be an Atrim v. Albion thread initially I think it's moved way beyond that. As for this remark: "I don't know where this stuff comes from that I'm trying to better the designs of the medieval swordsmiths." If this is rebutal to my comment of: "IMHO makers who claim to be creating improved designs are simply re-inventing the wheel by the process of reverse engineering." this wasn't directed at you. I think we can both think of a few makers who've made such claims. I've never said that you were one of them. This is certainly not a Atrim v. Albion thread, if it was it wouldn't be here. Second; I think the gist of your post is right on the money. It's exactly what we've been talking about, putting products and philosophies in their proper context. Putting any product or maker of same into a rigid "box" is a bit of a slippery slope to be sure. I also completely agree with you on the perceived cutting performance issue. I strongly feel that 99% of the time unsatisfactory cutting performance is an operator error issue not one of design. You've mentioned three specific makers in your post. IMHO if you can't cut successfully using a sword made by any of them then you simply need more practice. Still waiting on that review sword :D |
No, my thoughts on "where it came from" had nothing to do with you. We've had too many conversations over the last five years for me to know when you're digging at me, and when your not........
It was more of a general comment, I've seen it a bit over the last three or four months, here and at SFI. Its one of those things that finally needed to be expressed...........
This is an ego driven industry to some degree, and mine is as large as many. I make pretty good swords........ But so does Craig, and so do the folk at Albion..........
Part of the current problem {and I'm not sure its widespread just because a few people express it} is that there's a difference in how certain swords react to certain targets. The 2L pop bottle for one thing isn't as easy a target as some folks think it should be. Yeah, once you've cut a bunch of them, they're easy, but it takes two things to do well with any given sword, excellent edge alignment, and pretty good speed. If you have that, then the sword doesn't have to be razor sharp.
You kinda have to learn the "rules of the game". Each target type needs a bit different technique. Each can teach you something else, and none of the are all that "realistic". Stokesies {milk jugs}, follow thru, can cut with a baseball bat. 2L bottles, moderately sharp sword, plenty of velocity, great edge alignment, cut close to tip. Bugei wara, soaked 48 hrs, swordlike object, decent edge alignment, follow thru, cut anywhere on blade. Mugen Dachi mats, soaked six hours, relatively sharp sword, decent harmonics, good edge alignment, decent speed, follow thru, cut from cop to tip. Thin wall tubes, free standing, relatively sharp sword, great edge alignment, decent speed, follow thru, cut from cop to tip. Heavy wall tubes, free standing, relatively heavy duty sword, sharp, great edge alignment, good speed, follow thru, cut close to cop, 1/4 inch plywood, sword doesn't need to be sharp though good harmonics help, edge alignment helps, good speed, decent power and follow thru, cut close to cop..... etc...........Each target for the best success has slightly different rules. Good for cutting and target practice, not all that good for martial arts practice, once certain forms are learned.......
Folks read about other people cutting, and/ or see the photos of the cutting parties, then try it themselves without any prior experience. Then things don't work for them {at times}, and its the sword's fault. Sometimes it is, I know I'll take a sword back and fix it if its not cutting for someone when they try the first time. Of the five times in the last 2 years I've taken something back because someone couldn't cut with it, it really could have been sharper twice. It does happen..........
In the last two years, I've cut 2L bottles with an antique saber {some two years ago}, antique dao, antique tulwar, and antique kat. All were able to cut said bottles easily, and "take the second cut". But all four had to follow the same rules outlined above, mainly excellent edge alignment, and some velocity. Miss the edge alignment, and the bottle gets Babe Ruthed off the stand. Depending on type of sword, and "mission" of sword, most swords should cut these bottles {swords meant for heavy armor, or dedicated thrusting swords might not do well}. Generally speaking, most will, even if the owner cannot do it on first getting it. People need to learn to "bond" with their swords a bit before trying this stuff on tougher targets {like the 2L bottle can be at times}, and give the sword a fair chance. If the sword won't cut for you, talk to the manufacturer, most of us will take it back and look it over, even if there's nothing wrong with it..........
Back when Josh had Allsaints, twice he swapped swords for prospective buyers if they couldn't "bond" with a sword. Sh** happens. I think that Mike Sigman has done the same at times, after all, a happy customer makes us happy too.
Yep, I just ranted, but I've seen too many decent swords get a bad rap, regardless of maker.........
I like to see new people cut, but it does take a little learning to get acquainted with the tool, and it takes a bit of learning to use the tool. I also like to see martially training folks learn to cut too, but with the understanding you're only going to be learning so much...........
Auld Dawg