There's a quote in Milton's "Lycidas" in which a "two-handed engine at the door / Stands ready to smite once, and smite no more." It was written in 1638 and I'm wondering if he was intending a two-handed sword, but am unsure if two-handed swords would have been popular or would have been considered as outdated. What exactly was the opinion on two-handed swords and were there any remnants of them still being used that late?

Perhaps he meant a musket?

The twohanded sword was outdated by this time, and was carried as a ceremonial weapon. Swords like the claymores could be in use in Scotland, though.

Sorry about the double post, didn't know how to get rid of the first one.

David Bromkovsky wrote:

Quote:

There's a quote in Milton's "Lycidas" in which a "two-handed engine at the door / Stands ready to smite once, and smite no more." It was written in 1638 and I'm wondering if he was intending a two-handed sword, but am unsure if two-handed swords would have been popular or would have been considered as outdated. What exactly was the opinion on two-handed swords and were there any remnants of them still being used that late?

Hi David,

The question you raise is a complex one and has been debated amongst scholars for a long-time.

Some have seen the "two-handed engine" as a sword, others as a winnowing fan, others as a shepherd's staff or sheep hook, and so on.

It should be noted that the language is metaphorical-- as such it could indeed be a two-handed sword (even if they were out of fashion by Milton's time, Milton was certainly aware of them and knightly swords would not have been out of place in his writing), but it might not be...

Some of the debate has even focused on the words "two-handed". In Milton's time, apparently, two-handed could mean either "something which can be grasped with two hands" or "something which accomplishes two different things". As such, for instance, Milton's "two-handed engine" coukd be seen as an agent of both destruction and construction. It is possible, of course; that Milton was using both senses of the term "two-handed". More than once biblical references describe the word of God as a "sword"-- and God's words are ascribed the dual powers of creation and judgment...

I think that you may not be able to get a clear answer to your question-- but I don't think that the date of Milton's writing has much bearing on whether his engine could be a two-handed sword or not

Yours,

David

>what was the ceremonial function of the (two-handed) swords?

Parade pieces or set dressing, nothing looks quite as impressive as a long shiny piece of steel... :)

Most parade pieces (Swords of state, etc.) tend to be exaggerated, more filigree, bigger blades, more ostentatious, in general, they were used to symbolize the power and glory, and need to be as impressive as the figurative wielder.

To wit, there is a WWII collector in Belmont, CA that has a Third Reich Ceremonial/Display Zwiehander. This Monster stands only about 48" tall, but has a blade at least 3.5 inches wide (if not 4), and probably weighs in at about 20 pounds.
It serves no purpose other than to look impressive, and remind you of the strength and power of the SS (Yup, it's got the SS (and Skull?) lightning-bolt motif enameled onto the Guard). It was probably just set dressing for a meeting or stage.