Hello everyone,

I am interested in getting some entry level gear for WMA Longsword Freeplay.
I am hoping to get the community's opinion on on the use of the following items for that purpose:

WTC Gorget
Bellows Face Sallet (Note: Size large + arming cap)
German Style Gauntlets

Would these work for wasters? What about steel trainers?
Please share your thoughts

Thank you.

That's far more than entry level there. If you are part of a group go with their standard, different groups use different gear. Many groups use 3-weapons fencing masks, lacrosse gloves and a fencing jacket. You can add shoulder pads, knee pads, shin guards etc if you'd like. All of that costs under 100 bucks. More money for a good steel blunt, or synthetic waster!

Oh and it all depends on what you are learning as well. Blossfechten is different harnesfechten... so in the case of harnesfecten you'd be under dressed.

Not to discourage your purchases though, they all look decent and in fact if you do go with those gauntlets I'm dying to know your thoughts as I've been eyeing the same set, but it's a little overkill IMO for just starting out. Good luck regardless!

I wouldn't jump right into blunts until you've had some experience with wasters. IMO, You need a good understanding of technique and control before you start swinging a steel blunt at a partner. Head and hand aren't the only things that get hit in freeplay. I've got a painful apple sized bruise on the ribs from a synthetic waster (Rawlings).

We don't do any freeplay with steel. Steel is preserved for controlled drills and demos. YMMV

I forgot to mention I currently have a very stout gambeson custom made by steel-mastery.

Philip Fox wrote:

That's far more than entry level there. If you are part of a group go with their standard, different groups use different gear. Many groups use 3-weapons fencing masks, lacrosse gloves and a fencing jacket. You can add shoulder pads, knee pads, shin guards etc if you'd like...

I'm glad you think so. I do plan on wearing sports elbow caps as well. I was considering a mask, but I would really rather have back of head protection as well.

Tod Glenn wrote:

I wouldn't jump right into blunts until you've had some experience with wasters. IMO, You need a good understanding of technique and control before you start swinging a steel blunt at a partner. Head and hand aren't the only things that get hit in freeplay. I've got a painful apple sized bruise on the ribs from a synthetic waster (Rawlings). We don't do any freeplay with steel. Steel is preserved for controlled drills and demos. YMMV

I agree. I started out doing my drills with wasters and have shifted to blunts. I plan on engaging in free play with wasters initially; however, when the time comes to use steel blunts, I would rather not buy all new kit if that is not necessary.

Got it. Are you going to use full weight blunts, or federschwerts?

If you're using steel blunts, please do not use a plain 3-weapons fencing mask, especially if you're studying German longsword. A one-two Zwerchhau combination *wants* to hit past the coverage of the mask. They're simply not safe enough for the application.

There are reinforcements available for the back of regular masks, or you can get one of Terry Tindill's longsword-worthy masks.

All the best,

Christian

The issue with that bellows face is that the eye slot is too wide to prevent entry of the point. You can have perforated plate welded in to fix that.

Alternately, if you want more medieval looking safety gear, then check out the bouting helmets from Windrose Armoury. I own two and they're fantastic.

Yours,

Christian

Hey Jean, as always, thanks for the great input.

Jean Thibodeau wrote:

I don't have this Sallet but I do have the " Jaw bone GDFB " Sallet ...

How was the built-in padding? Good enough, or is my idea of going with the largest size and wearing an arming cap a good idea?

Jean Thibodeau wrote:

...Also would need a Gorget that will fit with it....

Did you mention this because you thought the gorget listed above might not fit with that helmet? Here is an up-close picture of it being worn.

Jean Thibodeau wrote:

...My suggestion would be to find and use close fitting protective goggles ( unbreakable ) generally used in machine shops with the Sallet if they can fit under the closed bellows visor ? I have never tried this and there might be good reasons why it might not work or be safe, but something to consider maybe. :?:

I had been thinking about something alone the same lines (basic safety glasses, but machine shop ones are probably even better). Has anyone out there done this?

Hi

I'd agree with Christian - the Windrose helmets are outstanding. We freespar quite hard with steel blunts.

I've taken several very solid blows including a near full power thrust from a steel blunt to little effect (apart from a nasty surprise). The helmet has a couple of dings now but my head has none.

You will want to add a suspension harness - Sean Flynt published an excellent description on myArmoury on how to add a suspension harness.

As to other kit - your gauntlets look good but you may want to think about additional arm protection to the gambeson - an accidental hard downward swing on an extended arm is no fun.

cheers

mike

I don't really think the GDFB stuff is appropriate for ether armored fighting or safety equipment for unarmored combat. The sallet would require perf steel and some sort of appropriate harness/padding and even then I would question is construction and the quality of the steel. The gauntlets look bulky and heavy to my eye. I would have to imagine the articulation is clunky and the short cuts they took in manufacturing would make using them difficult and cumbersome.

I also doubt ether item will fit or function well or be comfortable to wear. Armor needs to fit like a second skin or you'll hate it. I can't tell you how many people in my group buy the "cheap" stuff first because the right stuff costs some significant money. They all end up buying a second (or third, or fourth) time before they finally shell out the cash on some quality armor or give up trying.

Thanks Christian for nixing the safety glasses idea. :D :cool:

I'm still glad I brought it up as a suggestion because probably others have had this same idea or might have this same idea in the future and it's best to have an education opinion about it not being a safe option.

Hello folks,

I'd like to define a *reasonably* affordable, medieval-looking armour for longsword freeplay, one that will quite safe and look decent.

Head: Windrose pierced visor bascinet. And, both for appearance and safety, spend the money and get a mail aventail attached, either yourself or by them. ($350-$550, depending on aventail). You might also want a cheap leather or reinforced leather gorget under that.

Body: Gambeson; a real one, not one with insane open armpits like most of the GDFB offerings. Also consider a light, abbreviated breastplate - I've taken some, um, memorable thrusts to the chest. BTW, Revival Clothing's new cotton gambeson is on sale for $159 right now. And a simple GDFB breastplate will run you all of $85 dollars from the very reliable folks at Kult of Athena.

Arms: Get a pair of inexpensive elbow cops, like the ones Windrose sells ($52.50). Use these in conjunction with the simple gutter-shaped vambraces available from Kult of Athena ($55) or MRL.

Hands: Gauntlets remain the rub, though there are developments in the works. I understand Scott Wilson will be debutting gauntlet prototypes at Pennsic; I'll report back on them soon. In the meanwhile the Gothic numbers discussed here might work (I haven't tried them), but I'd strongly recommend removal of the inner door on cuff: it's shaped wrong, too big, and will inhibit crossed arms actions as-is. ($200-$300) Do not, btw, get the GDFB hourglass gauntlets, unless you plan on doing massive surgery to them.

Careful shopping and, for the smaller purse, some DYI can put all this in hand in the $900-$1300 range.

The gauntlets are the jarring part above. Hopefully, we'll have a 14th century-ish (to match the rest of the gear above) very soon...

Another option, for those inclined to more substantial arm protection: check out the excellent spring steel splinted armours being built by Wintertree Crafts these days. Erik's skills have grown by leaps and bounds and he's a great fellow to deal with.

Yours,

Christian