I just thought that I might share with you all a little exchange that I am having with the Australia Customs Service.

I emailed them to enquire if there were any issues with me purchasing an Atlanta Cutlery D-guard bowie and having it shipped to me here in Australia.
http://www.atlantacutlery.com/p-841-d-guard-bowie-knife.aspx

The D-guard bowie is a bit a strange beast, it is 23” (58cm) long and while it is called a knife it is, I feel, more akin to a hanger or small cutlass; and it has a guard similar to that of a sabre or cutlass.

The response from the Australian Customs Service was that the D-guard bowie is a prohibited import due to the fact that it is classified as a “trench knife”.

When I enquired as to the basis of the determination I was provided with the following description of a “trench knife”:
“Knives and similar devices that consist of a single or multi-edged blade or spike with a handle that protects the knuckles and increases the effects of a punch or blow and made of any material.”

I queried the somewhat broad nature of that description and suggested that on that basis a sabre, cutlass, basket hilt broadsword, schiavonna, or indeed even a longsword with side rings would easily fall within that definition of a “trench knife”. The response I received is below:

In regards to the classification of knives as 'trench knives or similar devices' in the Customs (Prohibited Imports) Regulations 1956 (the Regulations), the definition at Item 35 of Schedule 2 is as follows:

Trench knives or similar devices that consist of a single or multi-edged blade or spike:
a) fitted with a handle made of any hard substance that can be fitted over the knuckles of the hand of the user:
i) to protect the knuckles and
ii) to increase the effect of a punch or blow; and
b) made of any material.

The definition above makes reference to trench knives and 'similar' devices. A knife is defined as being 'a cutting instrument consisting essentially of a thin blade attached to a handle' in the Australian Macquarie Dictionary. We consider a sword to be a similar item to a knife and therefore there is no exemption for swords when being considered under Item 37 of Schedule 2 of the Regulations.

In general, most decorative cutlasses on swords are not considered to protect the knuckles and increase the effects of a punch or blow due to their decorative nature, lack of thickness and strength.

However, butterfly swords do meet the definition of a 'trench knife or similar device' as per the above definition. The guard on these knives/swords are think (sic.) and strong enabling them to protect the knuckles and increase the effect of a punch or blow.

The knife you enquired about originally is the D-Guard Bowie Knife. It has a strong, thick guard that would easily protect the knuckles and increase the effect of a punch or blow. The guard is not considered to be decorative or lacking in thickness and strength.

I replied and pointed out that the guard of a cutlass or sabre (or indeed most swords) is not decorative and is designed specifically to protect the hand and knuckles. To do that effectively the guard logically must be robust enough to withstand a substantial blow from the blade of a weapon of similar dimensions. This would obviously require that the metal guard be significantly more than “decorative” otherwise it would not be able to provide protection. Thus to be effective the guard would have to be“…thick and strong enabling (it) to protect the knuckles”. If it is thick and strong then it is possible that it could be used to “…increase the effect of a punch or blow.”.

I also enquired as to the basis upon which swords and sabres are classified and if they do not fall into the category of “trench knife” then provide advice upon if, based upon the description of a “trench knife”, is it still possible to import swords and sabres into Australia without applying for a permit. The response was as follows:

"I have advised you of the definition of a 'trench knife or similar device' in our Regulations. As you can see the definition does not make reference to the size of the item and there is no policy in place to exclude items over a certain length. Each item is assessed on its own merits.

I cannot give you a ruling on whether all swords and sabres meet the definition of a trench knife as each item must be assessed on its own merits. If you wish to import a sword or sabre and are unsure if it requires a permit, please email us the details and we can advise if a permit is required."

So, there you have it ladies and gentlemen of Australia, all swords with a protective guard may well classify as “trench knives” and thus prohibited imports, and there is apparently no essential difference between a knife and a sword for the purposes of Australian customs classification.

Government - re-defining and de-defining stuff!

I had no problem importing my two Albion with cross hilts. So you can't import knives/swords with a hand guard that protects the knuckles but you can buy them in Australia.

once the blade is over a certain length (think Machete length) it is classed as a sword and is fine.

same as the laws with dagger imports, as long as its over machete length and classed as a sword you can bring double edged goods in.

nothing new with these laws, just the usual Aussie customs.

scenes like this ALMOST make me want to move to the USA.

Just get an permission to import permit from customs. It takes a few weeks, but I've never had a problem obtaining one (for a dagger).

It's interesting that they seem to be hung up on the "object designed to increase the effects a punch" subject, and basically glossing over the long pointy piece of steel hanging out the front end of the guard.

Move to Ohio mate, Brass Knuckles and Trench Knives for everybody !!!

In certain metropolitan Hospital ERs, they issue you one in the waiting area.

(Sarcasm and Objective Humor). The "Peoples Republic of Australia", sounds a lot like "The Peoples Republic of IL, Hawaii, NY, MASS., and a few other states where the Law Abiding Citizen with no criminal record is hereby ordered to be the "sitting duck" target of any violent criminal element! In some of these states not even a handicapped person or elderly and physically
Impaired law abiding citizen can legally take any meaningful measures of self protection or preservation! Gee, I wonder why there are so many crime victims?
And we're only talking for collection and hobby interests here! In some states you can and will be prosecuted for protecting your home, family and property. Even if no criminal charges are brought against the resident and the home invader is convicted of home invasion and violent intent. He can still file and prosecute a civil suit against the defending resident! And in civil court a ruling only needs a "preponderance of guilt"! This to me in my opinion is absolute legal insanity! Sounds to me by the letter of the law, if you really dissected it, that a museum collection of knives, bladed weaponry, sword, polearm or otherwise would be a transgression of the law! Obviously, there's a legislative clause allowing for public and institutional collections, but a private collection is quite another judicial matter and ruling!
Oh and whatever you do, never use a caustic substance like sulphuric acid, bleach, ammonia, rat poison, etc, especially to the face and or eyes. In most states this is. "Henious battery with a caustic substance with the intent to cause disfigurement and blindness! This is a Class X Felony and in many states carries a mandatory Life Imprisonment sentence!
So putting straight bleach, ammonia, etc in a squirt gun for self defense is a Big "NO NO"!!
My Sincere Sympathies From The Heart and Soul!
I am not an attorney or law enforcement, however,I have learned many things from very close longterm friends, 4 are lawyers and 1 is "Chief of Police" in a township of over 100,000 people. The latter of which our friendship goes back to 1974. Just validating I have learned "some" things from legal experts and not talking any jibberish to hear myself talk, or in this case "type". LOL! Little humor there for a Friday evening.
Bob

Basically i posted that stuff because i just thought that it was surreal that a vague and ill defined description of a trench knife was so broad that it basically covered almost all swords, and that there was, according to the legislation, no difference between a knife and a sword. That said though, yes, the enforcement of the legislation is somewhat "patchy" to say the least and that more often than not, most things are not intercepted on the way into australia. Needless to say that knuckle dusters are illegal - also, oddly enough, so are flails and articulated weapons like nunchuks (i think this is to supress the outer suburban bogan ninjas); another odd thing is that maces are prohibited - flanged and studded maces, but seemingly not warhammers and the like; axes and hatchets are fine but push knives are not.

Interestingly the descriptions of what is allowed actually seem to contradict the advice from Customs; under knives and daggers it says:

Daggers and similar devices: Sharp pointed, concealable, doubled edged knives. Traditional long swords and bayonets are excluded.

But under trench knives:

Trench knives: Knives and similar devices that consist of a single or multi-edged blade or spike with a handle that protects the knuckles and increases the effects of a punch or blow and made of any material.

But given that they seem to regard a sword as a knife the mind boggles as to how to interpret the legislation. Either way though i don't think that on the whole it actually effects the day to day business of buying stuff and getting it sent to australia, but it just shows what can happen when you get government to try and define a sword or a knife.

Don't even go near the firearm laws here though; not that i've ever been intrested in bang-sticks and such there was a case here a couple of months back where a guy was carrying around a novelty umbrella with a handle in the shape of a rifle butt; he was intercepted by armed police and it was confiscatred; the store that sold them withdrew them from stock and i doubt that you can import them. The thing is that replica firearms, even seemingly things that have only a passing resemblance to a rifle, for the sake of registration and regulation actually classify as firearms and as such are prohibited without a lot of paperwork and identity checks. That rules out everything from non-firing replica's to airsoft stuff and crossbows.

And, nope, pretty much nothing would persuade me to move the the US (no offense guys); even though its a nanny state here, even though the political debate here is less sophisticated than Judge Judy; even though we are basically an open cut mine for the rest of the world, I like our health care and social security systems (what's left of them anyway).

Hi Christopher Lee, not to derail the topic matter, you are exactly correct as tothe health care situation here in the United States. It's ATROCIOUS!!
Back to the subject matter, I have come across something but not conclusively validated. The matter. This is in relation to pronounced triangular cross section knives and blades being banned by the Geneva Convention, because of the ghastly wounds they create and therefore extremely complicated to restore to a healed stage and therefore the complications of infection, so I am wondering if a triangular pronounced rondel dagger would be yet another legal problem "Down Under"?
Yet another law that makes no sense when one considers the wounds from large caliber magnum handguns and especially revolvers. The latter of which facilitates much longer shell casings and therefore "Ooomph" to the firing blast, projectile velocity. And explosion of tissue matter of the recipient! As trauma surgeons put it, the velocity and mass of the projectile when impacting living tissue which is basically of a liquid matter is forced from the impact location with such force and velocity that it can and does cause ruptures of even mass proportions. Still, large caliber magnum revolvers and ammunition are quite legal (I Am 100 percent Pro Gun Rights for Law Abiding Citizens), yet in some states "butterfly knives" switch blades or any spring loaded blade, brass or steel knuckle knives, triangular blades etc are prohibited.
In my "Knight of Madness" (self labeled humorous nickname) opinion, these insane laws are a result of the anti weapon agendas, who in most cases have zero knowledge of weaponry, self defense and are clueless to the very large percentage of "would be crime victims" that were spared HORRORS of themselves and loved ones, because they DID have a means of self defense!
For thousands of years, swords defined, changed and protected borders and kingdoms. So In All Common Sense, swords of all shapes and sizes are a "Vital and Integral Source and LEARNING Resource of. Most peoples History, Culture and Heritage and not necessarily weapons at all! By the way, a "BOOK" in the hands of a martial artist can be quite a weapon, even a deadly weapon! (Sarcasm) Do we prohibit books because a martial artist could kill somebody with it?
I just had to "throw" a book into the mix! LOL!

Bob

Us has the best heatlhcare system in the world. The treatment will save you but the bill will enslave you but at least you get taken care of unlike in a lot of those 'socialized' health care coutnries. Just saying...People rush from Canada to the US for cancer treatments among other procedures the Canadian health care system denies them.

Folks, political commentary is best left for sites whose focus it is. :)

Back to topic, please.

So, what do you all think; is the atlanta cutlery D-guard bowie a trench knife, sword, machete or just a plain large knife? I wonder if i should just chance it anyway and if it gets intercepted i can always just apply for a permit retrospectively?