I was hoping you good folks could steer me toward a few sources for a roundel dagger that would fit nicely with an early 15th cent kit. I've looked at the one's from A&A and KoA and wondered if there were any others out there I should look at.

Thanks as always.

Todd's Stuff and Arma Bohemia.

http://www.todsstuff.co.uk/index.htm
http://www.todsstuff.co.uk/theenglishcutler/index.htm

http://armabohemia.cz/

Look at our spotlight article on the Rondel Dagger (not "roundell") for other suggestions.

Well would you rather have a period correct rondel dagger for 200-300 dollars or a rondelesque chunck of carbon steel? My personal philosophy for combat reenactment is to get the cheapest thing possible so all those nicks and scratches don't give you a sinking sensation in the pit of your wallet :)

even cheaper (and of probably better quality) are these http://www.darkwoodarmory.com/index.php?main_...ifo2565tp2 but they fall under the category of some assembly required

Rondel dagger; merci beau coup Spell check doesn't always recognize middle English apparently. Ah well, such is the price of over reliance on technology. :D

Todd's stuff has some very interesting daggers, thanks for the link.

I think I'll take some of the historical images of these daggers to a few of the local smiths and see what they might come up with. If I go that route, I'll keep everyone in the loop as to the results. We have around to two hundred blade smiths in Montana last time I checked and I like to keep the $$$ in the family whenever possible.

Should these daggers have flat or triangular blade sections or is there no set rule on that subject? The triangular blades seem to be intended to puncture armor while the flat blades seem to favor working into existing openings such as visor slits or plate gaps.

If it's purely recommendations you are looking for I would second Tod's Stuff and also I would throw Justin King's name out there. I own two of his, and he does fantastic work.

I would also reccommend Tod's stuff, or his other venture The English Cutler. A&A would also make you an excellent rondel.

Though, your local blacksmiths must be quite skilled if they can match the works of Tod or A&A. :)

I did indeed read the piece on rondel daggers and found it very informative and it did answer most of my questions regarding blade configuration.

Re: the smiths up here. I suppose I should have mentioned that they are blade smiths, although we have plenty of blacksmiths and farriers as well. Many have been producing award winning knives and other edged weapons for decades and are very skilled craftspeople.

If I get a rondel dagger I would like one that is both period accurate and a capable and durable weapon in its own right. I don't re-enact currently so I'm not bothered by the possibility of it getting damaged in that fashion. I just have a fondness for the early 15th cent and would like a piece that properly reflects what might have been in use during that time. If perchance it did get a nick or two, well one of the beauties of steel is that is can be repaired up to a point.

Thanks for all the input, I am now better educated on the subject and have resources for advancing this project if I feel so inclined.

As I recently got a Rondel from Tod's I'd like to add that owning it made "sense" a lot of Rondel related techniques in Fiore. it's a crowbar with a hilt--a heavy piece of steel that can stop a heavy blade or even a poleaxe if held in a two handed grip--it can be grasped at any point on the blade--and the point will punch through steel (I've tried). It is NOT an eating knife. it is NOT a useful tool for cutting string.

In fact, it appears that it's a cultural symbol of gentility, because what it says is "I fight in armour." Sort of like a bumper sticker saying "my other suit of clothes is made of steel." In period, a guy with a Ballock dagger is saying "I have a useful knife" and a guy with a Rondel is saying "I fight in armour."

Just an impression.

:)

This is great to read and I will certainly delve more into the variety of blade forms and the diversity of cross section in both the rondel and ballock daggers,

My ignorance on this matter should be attributed to my rather narrown concentration on the period (1000-1300).

I should have done at least a modicum of research before jumping right into the thread here. :) Now I feel like a "noob"! :lol:

I have often wondered about effigies and bollock daggers. There are for sure many effigies that show the man in full armour etc and with a bollock dagger, but there would have been other more suitable military daggers for men of this means, such as rondel and quillon daggers. I mean by more suitable, ones with stronger guards as at least in the early days of bollock daggers they usually lack substantial guards.

So it brings me back to why? I wonder if it is that they could be made quite flashy or that they were just in fashion and when a fight really was on the horizon they would get replaced with something more robust. I know there will be a million paintings of bollock daggers worn into battle, but this is just my suspicion.

Jeremy, just as Nathan said, these daggers are defined by their hilts not their blades, and again this place is all about learning, but I would support you in assuming that if 'John Doe' had a bollock dagger it would be single edged 'v' and his rondel would be a heavier single edged 'v'. But Mr Average aside, pretty much anything you can think of and plenty you can't; existed.

Tod

It wouldn't surprise me, given the late 14th and 15th c., to find Rondel hilts on very practical blades...this is the period of appearance over reality, and looking like a dangerous hombre probably was more important to some than being one...

I merely meant that Leo's work caused me to "understand" at some level, what these knives could do...

I really like the look of the ballock dagger in the second to last pic, with the reinforced tip.

I do wonder if the blade behind the reinforcement is sufficiently stout for combat? It looks a bit dainty.