someone made the claim that this is a 11th century helmet
http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=89&u=14729215
anyone who can confirm or reject?

(read more here)
http://thearbalistguild.forumotion.com/histor...ry-t83.htm

It does appear that the fellow who made the claim in that forum page you cited states that they are replicas made by himself. So no, the chapel de fer seen there is not an 11th century helm, but I believe it is meant to be a replica of one.

Connor

Obviously they are not original pieces and that is not the question. The question is, did the Chapel-de fer see use in the 11th century or did it only come about after?

not 11th century. i would say late 12th thru 14th centurys

Actually, that looks like not very well executed variation of chapel de fer shown in "Techniques of medieval armour reproduction", and there it is presented as 14th century helmet so...

no chance for a 11th century steel HAT then.
confound it.
oh well, thankyou for your time gentlemen.

Ah, I see. Sorry for misinterpreting. Yes, I would agree with the others here. I don't think it saw use until at least the 12th, century. On a related note, does anyone here know of an example of a kettle hat with nasal, and how early they showed up?

Connor

the famous hummingbird kettle hat? ;) i think they are a 15th bird as it were. I don't have any pictures of the actual one on hand but do have some of a reconstruction.

http://www.replications.com/greys/Image%20Gal...GP0758.jpg
http://www.replications.com/greys/Image%20Gal...GP0757.jpg
http://www.replications.com/greys/Image%20Gal...GP0754.jpg

Hi

Without going to the 'library' if I recall correctly one of the ivory Isle of Lewis gaming pieces also has a piece in which a 'knight' is wearing a broad brimmed helm.

The pieces are dated to the 12th C.

best
Dave

so when some people say 11th century they mean the century BEFORE it?

My group is, as our homepage says, "1135-1215


Historia Normannis is a 12th century reenactment group, focusing primarily on the events between the reign of Henry I and King John."

and I have searched high and low for ANY kettlehat within those years. but no.
oh well, guess I'll just have to find a funky looking norman helmet.
http://www.armurerie-du-vaucluse.com//boutiqu...-large.jpg like this maybe

Some people may be confused by the term~ "twelfth-hundreds" which means years 1200 - 1299. In many languages that's the way centuries are referred to (as in my own Finnish), but in English it works the way I said above in the previous message.

englishmen and their language. they can be SO confusing sometimes ;)

if you say the 1920ies you mean 1920-29
but if you say "second decade" its 1910-19, because 1900-1909 is the first decade

so if you say 11th century its 1000-1099
but by the "eleven-hundreds" you mean the years 1100-1199


as for the chapel-de-fer, i`d rather suggest late 12th century

didnt some early kettle helms turn up during one of the crusades? (1st-3rd?)

I'm a member of a group that re-enacts crusaders between 1150 -1250(primarily 3rd Crusade) and I use a similar Kettle Hat .You can find Kettles in the illuminations,throughout this period,ie theMaciejowski Bible and as has been mentioned on the Isle of Lewis chessmen.So it is period correct for you.And I think they are an entirely practical style for hot climes such as the Holy Land (and in my case Australia).
Ron