Hi all

I just recently purchased a pig faced bascinet, i have not had the chance to fight in it yet, but i was wondering what techniques you may have used to get used to fighting in this style of helm. also what you may think are the best tactics while useing this helm in combat on foot.

I love these helms but the vison can be an issue, so let me know what you think is the best way to get used to fighting in a pig face.

First of all, check if the visor can be removed. Without it, the protection decreases, but the vision, breathing and shouting capability increases notably...I can't give any other advice, sorry.

From what I have read here one would remove the visor for fighting on foot or just raise it but then it does make the helm feel top heavy and if hit with a hard blow on the visor it could be disturbing or the visor close at an inopportune time.

When on horseback charging with the lance the visor would be down and if on foot facing a storm of arrows it would be down.

Vision is impaired but one gets used to moving one's head to make the best of what vision there is and the breaths can give you some cues about movement to help direct your head to use the ocular slot(s). ( Some visors have a slot low at mouth level that one can see downward to a lesser degree than the upper main vision slots ).

A later Sallet, even with the visor down gives better vision as the vision slot is much closer to the eyes and the pig face snout that extends forward does block vision to a degree.

Bascinet with the more rounded visors may give slightly better field of view ?
http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=...net+Helmet

I have the helmet Jean linked to, and while I haven't fought in it, the degree to which it limits my vision is pretty small. I have fought with worse, to be sure. The helmet I have fits me very well though, and the oculars are pretty close to my face. It's amazing too, how much those three little holes under each ocular open up my field of view.

However!

The reasons I haven't fought in it are that the visor doesn't stay in place very well, and the mounting mechanism can can open up really easily, allowing the whole visor to fall off! Also, depending what sort of training sword you are using, it might fit into the ocular, which is no good. I'm trying to decide whether it is worth it to try and modify it. I have a few better helmets.

But I have a question related to this; what mechanism historically would hold the visor open or closed? Just hinge friction? How do we know that historically they kept their visors open on foot with a pig-face? I guess that's more than one question.

A further comment though. I don't think (having never worn one!) that a pig-faced bascinet that fits correctly should hamper your vision particularly more than a similar round-faced bascinet. Anyone have experience to the contrary? It just looks to me like the cone shape of the visor pretty closely follows the line of the blind spot around your nose. The oculars would block your view of the cone more than the cone would block your view, and most of it would be out of your line of vision anyways. Just my perception here.

Thank you to every one who has posted, the information has been invaluable to me, i was wondering if any one has had any experience fighting with this pig face: http://www.ravencrest.co.uk/faced-houndskull-...p-550.html

also does anyone know of the quality of the helm.

many thanks
mark

I've seen no evidence for any mechanism other than friction for holding the visor up or down.
The Getty Fiore MS (combat manual circa 1410) shows a technique for wrestling your opponent to the ground using his visor, which suggests that there was no locking mechanism.
The Getty shows most armoured combat with visors removed. for both sword and poleaxe. The Pisani-Dossi Fiore has all of the armoured sword techniques with visor removed, and all but one of the poleaxe plays with a visor on.
mark

I own a pig-faced bascinet and regularly fight in it. Eye slots are like those on this helmet [ Linked Image ] and therefore are somewhat wider than on most bascinets. Fighting one on one is not that difficult as you can guess what your opponent's legs do by watching only his shoulders. But in mass fights you are at a big disadvantage. No problem as long as you are in the middle of formation. But as soon as formation breaks you have a big problem understanding where are your enemies and whether the person you see is your enemy or your friend. Side-to-side field of view is pretty narrow (at least in case of my helmet) therefore I can basically see only in front of me. And when I quickly spin my head I see only parts of body armor, shields and helmets. And as most reenactors here wear viking-style armor (maille and norman and gjermundbu style helmets and of course no coats of arms) it is not enough to understand whether it is a friend or a foe. For example I once thought that my opponent had a round shield (which meant that he was my enemy) while in fact he had kite shield (which meant he was actually my friend) and I only saw the upper semicircular part of it. So if you participate in mass fights make sure you stay in the middle of formation with somebody covering your back and flanks. Don't fight without the visor if you value your eyes and teeth. Or if you don't care about authenticity buy a perforated visor as was already suggested in previous replies.

I forgot to mention. If you are using blunts... do yourself a favor and make sure you opponent has a rubber tip on his blunt with a washer on the inside. There have been some nasty accidents in Eastern Europe with blunt tips getting inside tiny openings. The result has been the banning of thrusts in many of those organizations. The solution I just gave you will remedy the threat... so long as you are not charging into each other at full speed and points forward. That is because if the tip snaps off, you are left with a sharp point again.

I've fought in a pig-face, houndskull, and klappvisors. None of them are easy to fight in with the visor attached, you have to train your method extensively with each different helmet you use.

However, my Schola instructor wears this visor on his main bascinet as an alternative:

http://revival.us/wmapiercedvisor.aspx

[ Linked Image ]

I've tried it out, and I love it. It looks good and the visibility can't be beat. It's the best protective faceplate I have personally tried out - nothing gets though it... :)

I have fought in one for many years. When I reduced my armor, I change the faceplate on my helm as limited visibility + small shield + no armor = a LOT of pain. One big advantage of a pigface is that you won´t fall for feints as you won´t see them though :p . Anyways some things I learned was that the breath holes make for good secondary visual input when you train yourself to do it. The helm your looking at has the eye slots closer to the face so it won´t be as bad as mine (mine had the eye slots about 3 inches from my face)...but look at the shoulder...when you see that move, block the shoulder. The hardest issue was finding openings to attack however...with such limited vision, it became kind of a potshot.

I realize this is a small nit to pick, but I really hate the rubber blunts, and always use plastic instead. Rubber grabs whatever it hits and transfers all of the thrusts energy into the target. On a head hit that can rock your head back pretty hard and hurt your neck. Plastic hits and then skips off so that you don't get the same transfer of energy. I prefer UHMW plastic that I buy scraps of, or low friction chair leg tips with a washer and attached with hot glue and some tape as well.

Darkwood makes plastic tips that look like rubber blunts. They grab less than rubber but more than my homemade tips.

Sorry for venturing off-topic here, but we find this makes a tremendous difference to our safety.

Craig, I have tried the chair tips with a washer on the inside. They're good too. I was not paying attention to the friction issue, but I can see how it would be improved.