Happy St. Patrick's Friends,

Just out of curiousity, has anyone else added a shillelagh to their holiday festivities? At two very large events this year (the North Texas Irish Festival and the Dallas St. Paddy's Day Parade) I only saw a handful, despite many people dressing "Irish" in some way.

If you have pictures, I'd love to see them! Here are a few of mine:
http://forensicfashion.com/NTIrishContext2010NTIF.html
http://forensicfashion.com/NTIrishContext2010Dash.html

I do not have a shillelagh, but I do have a very nice Blackthorn walking stick in my collection that was my Great-Great Grandsire's.
no pictures though sorry.


Mike

I had done a little looking into a shillelagh a couple months ago. Turns out that there is a strong tradition of martial arts in Ireland of the stick variety. Also according to many thing I had found, traditional shillelaghs are made from Blackthorn. Blackthorn is supposedly pretty scarce these days. If you are looking for an authentic blackthorn shillelagh, that is traditionally cured, expect to pay a lot for it. I would say between 80 to 150 USD. Many online vendors typically only have one picture of a shillelagh so you never know what you are going to get. I have seen everything from walking sticks to cud

You Tube: Irish Stick Fighting for some videos.

I sort of collect and at times have made my own walking sticks and I usually use one most days although I don't really need one for walking I do find that for the long 5 mile walks I enjoy that a stick gives you a little extra push forward.

I also use a 4' 5" walking staff occasionally and a 5 foot quarter staff ( Mostly when I walk to my pollarm classes: have to bring it anyway, so might as well use it to walk the 1.5 miles to our training room. ;)

Since I have a backpack with my fencing mask in it anyway it sort of doesn't bring too many funny looks. :wtf: :?:

One of my sticks I made from a Hard Maple branch and would qualify as very Shillelagh - like: Nice polished and oiled wood grain.

I do also have the Cold Steel polypropylene version of a Shillelagh.

So I guess I can say that " Yes, I did use a Shillelagh today. ( technically, later tonight walking to the gym as I haven't gone out yet today ).

By the way Montreal had it's St Patrick's day this Sunday and it's one of the biggest parades in the World: Although Québec is French at 75 % of Population about 40% of us have Irish ancestors mixed in.

In the middle of the 19 Th. century a lot of Irish immigrated to Quebec as they where more welcome in Catholic Quebec than in most places in North America at the time.

I also think that there where a lot of Irish orphans adopted by French Canadian parents after their parents died in transit from Ireland ( plague or other diseases on board ships or as orphaned survivors of famine ).

Here is a little background history: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Quebeckers

As you can see in the photos, my "costume" wasn't traditional by any means, and my little shillelagh has a very touristy-looking "Ireland" stamp and "Shillelagh" on it. But the wood -- I don't know if it's blackthorn -- is quite strong and hard. Even at this small size it makes a good weapon, so a full sized traditional one must've been formidable in skilled Leprechaun hands.

PS: Jean, our area (North Texas) also has a strong Irish presence, more specifically Scots-Irish settlers from the mid-19thc. At present, though, it seems most of their descendants here have, for all practical purposes, lost the distinction between Scots-Irish and "true" Irish Catholics.

Blackthorn is all but scarce in rural Ireland. Frombeing trapped in fields and swamps surrounded by them I know what I'm talking about ;-). What is scarce are traditionnal shillelagh makers. I got mine from William Keally in Shillelagh, Wicklow. He does some very decent sticks;, some more tourist type (black painted with a decorative slit), others made for actual fighting practice (oiled and intact). I also own an antique from the mid-19th century.

Many Shillelaghs are made from Hawthorn, avoid them as they are at 99% of terrible quality. Traditionnal woods are: blackthorn, oak, Holy, crabapple and ash.

I give shillelagh fighting classes in Quebec City, and recently appeared in a local journal: http://img406.imageshack.us/i/dangerousc.jpg/

Max,
Congratulations on receiving that local recognition.
The article quotes you as saying the shillelagh is a weapon of Irish Catholics developed after disarmament by English Protestants. Can you give us any more information about that? It sounds very similar to the reputed origins of other stickfighting traditions, including Eskrima/Arnis in the Philippines.

It is not an accepted hypothesis by everyone, but personally I find the facts too obvious to dismiss it. Basically in the late 17th century,the english crown passed the Penal Laws, which were laws intended to disarm the catholics. They could not be part of the army, own any weapons, posses lands or have a horse woth more than a certain amount, among other things.

While it is obvious that many of them would have hidden weapons where they could, and that they sometimes received equipment from the enemies of England; weapons predating the penal laws can be counted on one's fingers, and most are found in archaeological digs. Many reports are made about the poor state of armament in Ireland, and many emancipation supporters also called on the defenseless situation of the Catholic Irish.

And so like many other people around the world, the Irish simply took up a familiar weapon which could double as an everyday item, such as a walking stick. It is a fact that it was used before this (staves and canes are mentionned in the late 16th century), but not to the same extent.

Ok so the Blackthorn might not be scarce, but that does not mean that it is very available. I am sure that it is scarce when comparing to times when shillelaghs where first made, as just about anything is. It is not as if you can go meandering about the Irish countryside hacking down blackthorn shrubs.

Hi

I come from a farm in the west of Ireland - there are probably more fields in the west of Ireland than anywhere else in Ireland - Until 15 years ago, this was the poorest part of Ireland, with lots of farmers running small fields. Obviously, there were many ditches and hedges separating the fields where blackthorn and hawthorn bushes grew. In folklore, these were both feared and called fairy-trees (fairies living in them) and so were not cut down.

When the economy boomed in Ireland 15years ago, farmers got fewer and farms got bigger. The EU gave grants to Irish farmers to make their fields bigger. Folklore was forgotten, and blackthorn and hawthorn were cut down, making them very scarce today. Even if you were to find blackthorn, finding a straight stick is difficult, let alone finding a straight stick with a knob (handle) at the end. These knobs used to be bored out and filled with lead to be used as a weapon back in the day.

Yes, the blackthorn walking stick was banned by the English penal laws, and yes, they were available to both Protestants and Catholics alike. Regardless of religion, they were used as weapons. A good SHILLELAGH was then, and is still now a prized possession.

Hi,
so it's a cousin of the Breton penn bazh (head stick)?
[ Linked Image ]

Max - I respect your great knowledge of Irish history. I wish you were my school teacher in Ireland...I would be a much better Irishman for it, rather than simply living the history myself. Kudos!

I don't mean to say that it isn't there. For example... I live in Pennsylvania. Pennsylvania is known for its hard wood deciduous forest. I cannot go into the forest and hack down a maple tree, unless I own the land. I do not own land in Ireland, and can't buys blackthorn on the internet (unless I want to pay 100 bones for a "shillelagh). So yeah I am sticking with my original statement that blackthorn is not very available. If it was readily available I would have some curing in my work shop.

Does anyone know how these shillelaghs where cured? I have read everything from simply placing them somewhere to dry, to smearing them with butter and placing them up a chimney. What would a traditional shillelagh maker do?

I just went back an d read a little more. James... Thanks for that knowledge. I knew that I had read somewhere that blackthorn was scarce. Your explanation really makes sense too. Small farms suffer, and hedges disappear. Thought I was loosing my mind when I heard contradictory things. I was not talking historically. Also let me mention that as someone that has an education in Biology (Ecology), that most any wood is scarce even when comparing it to 20 years ago.

When I visited Ireland I was looking for a blackthorn stick but found few worth any $$ in the common (non touristy) shops. Apparently post 9/11 traveling with them on aircraft became harder and thus popularity with tourists went down? (No idea if this is true but its' what I was told).


I walk with a cane/stick at times because of my knees, and have picked up multiple sticks around the world. My first was in Pisa, the "Ass-Whupping Stick" (so named by a guy in my group as soon as he saw it....the name stuck, especially since a few minutes later I nearly had to use it on a gypsy).

I picked up a regular cane/stick in Dublin since the blackthorns were scarce, and walked all over Europe with it.

Stick #3 i picked up in Texas, my "car stick" since it's replaceable. In general design, i would say it's a shillelagh but instead of a large wood knob, it's got a brass doorknob as the grip. Definitely makes an impression if you need to use it on someone!