Hi all :)

Most greaves of plate armour generally completely cover the shin(lower part of the knee).
But many cuisses cover up only the front(and some sides) of the thigh.
Therefore most cuisses do not cover up the back of the thigh.
I think that it is to ride a horse...

Knights wear a arming doublet under the plate armour.
The armpits and the inside of the elbow of the arming doublet are covered by mail.
Of course we know the reason. (to cover the gap of plate armour...)

But... As far as I looked so far... Many pants(under the plate armour) are not covered by mail.
In many battles, foot soldiers aimed at the back of the knee of armored knights.

I have a question...
Why are not the thigh and back of knee protected by mail? :?:

Thanks Hugh Knight! :)

Quote:

In some cases the backs of the knees are covered by mail. Consider this plate from the Paulus Kal Fechtbuch: http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/bsb00...l?seite=51

I knew this Fechtbuch and I found same(the backs of the knees are covered by mail) illust on 241r of "Paul Hector Mair's Munich Fechtbuch Part II".
[ Linked Image ]

Quote:

And the back of the thigh was sometimes covered with full plate, not just mail. Indeed, many English effigies from the late 14th century onward show fully-closed cuisses. Consider this brass of Sir John Bettesthorne, who has both closed plate cuisses and mail behind the knee: http://www.mbs-brasses.co.uk/page320.html

I can't found the photo of the thigh was covered with full plate. :( (The photos of armours are generally taken by the front... Thus I do not see rear.)
Of course except foot-combat armours of HenryVIII. (I think that foot-combat armours such as HenryVIII's foot-combat armour was never used by real battle. I think that foot-combat armours are used only for a tournament. Or were foot-combat armours really used by battle?)
* The "foot-combat armour of HenryVIII" that I say is a this type.
[ Linked Image ]

However, there is doubt about "Paul Hector Mair's Munich Fechtbuch Part II" all the time...
A lot of illust of the armour(the thigh was covered with full plate) appear in this book.
Does these Armours really existed? :?:
For example:
[ Linked Image ]
[ Linked Image ]
244v, 260v: Both armoured man puts on spiked rings around a neck, a waist, a thigh, an arm. (looks like video game character :eek: )

[ Linked Image ]
[ Linked Image ]
245v, 204r: The inside of the knee is covered with a plate in the same way as foot-combat armor of Henry VIII.

Quote:

Consider that the famous 15th-century knight Jacques de Lalaing, who often fought in friendly deeds of arms with a light infantry helmet with neither visor nor bevor in spite of the fact that such occasions usually called for maximum protection. He did this because he felt the improved vision and ability to breathe afforded by his choice outweighed the risks.

Jacques de Lalaing: http://www.thehaca.com/essays/Lalaing.htm (very interesting! :) )

p.s.
Paul Hector Mair's Munich Fechtbuch Part II: http://mdz10.bib-bvb.de/~db/bsb00007894/images/
This book is very beautiful!
There are many sites that English translated "Paul Hector Mair's fechtbuch".
However, I can't found the site that translated "Cod.icon. 393-2" is not found. :(

I am watching this thread with great interest as I really want to know the answer to this as well. I know there were a few other armours very similar to the Henry VIII foot combat one, somewhere in Italy (I think) with similar designs.

That Fechtbuch is really fun to look through and there are a lot of extremely dirty fighting tactics depicted in it (jumping off your horse onto the opponent's horse, pulling off the bridle of your opponent's horse, hitting your opponent with the handle end of your lance, stabbing your opponent in the balls, etc.) I can only assume that these little tricks were intended to be used only in a life and death battle and not during a tournament.

There have been threads about this before. One of the ones I saw stated a few reasons for not covering the insides of the legs.

If you are a horseman, keep in mind you want good contact with the horse. If you put slippery armor between you and it, it makes it easier for you to fall off or be off-balance constantly.

Furthermore, if you're on a horse, much of the exposed area will be covered by a lot of horsie flesh. Yes, if you can reach back behind the leg and hook it with your polearm or stab from behind with some other weapon of choice, you can do some serious damage. But you either have to be very quick about it as the guy rides past you, duck his attacks as you do so, or get some soon to be ex-friends to distract him and get him to stay still for a moment. Much easier to see if you can kill the horse in my admittedly less than expert opinion. Then hope the sucker falls on the rider as it dies. If not, grab some buddies and make it as unfair a fight as you can.

Lastly, as already mentioned, armor is not a great deal of fun to wear for long periods of time and if you could cut some corners when wearing it for comfort, some guys would consider it worth the risk.

Hi :)

Quote:

Colt Reeves wrote: If you are a horseman, keep in mind you want good contact with the horse. If you put slippery armor between you and it, it makes it easier for you to fall off or be off-balance constantly. Furthermore, if you're on a horse, much of the exposed area will be covered by a lot of horsie flesh.

I thought about the same thing! (However, I was not able to write it with my English. :( )
I can't found the photo of the thigh was all covered with full plate. (Is there the surviving? :?: )


p.s.
I'm sorry for responding late. (include other threads)

I don't know about ancient horseback riding, but the modern Western style of riding includes the use of leg pressure to help direct the horse, or at least as I was taught. It would make sense for that method to be in use then, since as you note they had to use their hands for other things.

Just saw this effigy with lames behind the knee http://www.flickr.com/photos/roelipilami/sets...51/?page=2

The pointed faulds certainly look early 15thc. http://www.flickr.com/photos/roelipilami/4682...2432104851 You also get the same construction on the heels.

The effigy has been repaired over the years though. Could this be the work of an overzealous repair job?