What is a Scottish whinger. ??

All I know is that it is "supposed" to be a form of a "Scottish Knife, similar to a poniard, & having a blade 12.5 inches long.

Jack

Hmmm... I've never heard of it, do you have any photos?

A google image search doesn't give any relevant results.

Jack....

The term usually refers (loosely) to a type of poniard dagger supposedly popular in the south and east of Scotland. Imagine a ballock knife without the characteristic protrubances but with short horizontal quillons ending in a decorative ball or acorn shape. The blade is generally fairly thin and triangular in profile, the surface being flat. I have never seen one engraved or adorned. It is definitly a thrusting and stabbing weapon and not very utilitarian in design. It seems to be - if any of the providence of the "whinger" can be presumed to be correct (see below)- a dressy alternative to the dirk carried by the more "civilized", English-speaking Lowland Scots in the same manner as any other person of the period would have carried a dagger or belt knife.

Frankly, I think this whole issue has more to do with Wallace's remark in "Scottish Swords and Dirks" than any other source I've ever seen as he pictures and example and in the text makes a reference to its Lowland origins. There are several notable makers of this design taken from Wallace, particularily Glenn McClain. I have two of Glenn's "whingers" in my collection, one with an ivory grip.

I believe it is the type of Scottish knife that fellow forumite Justin King made here. It is the knife at the bottom of his attachment, with truncated quillons ending in flattened spheres, and a backed single edged blade. This knife is found in Wallace's book Scottish Edged Weapons (I think that's what it's called - my copy is misplaced). Here's the topic I found:

http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...ht=whinger

From Culloden The swords and the sorrows: An exhibition to commemorate the Jacobite rising of 1745 and the Battle of Culloden 1746

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Silver-mounted quillon dagger (whinger)

Culloden The swords and the sorrows: An exhibition to commemorate the Jacobite rising of 1745 and the Battle of Culloden 1746

Nathan, thanks for posting the knife from "Swords and Sorrows." I have really wondered about that blade as it has seen really horrible abuse as evident from its condition and the grindings. I have a hunch that it is a broken sword blade reground and altered very crudely from a Johannes Wundes sword blade, hence the mention of the heads of "grotesque beasts" actually distorted crowned heads used as a touch-mark by Wundes. Any thoughts?

Jack, if I had a digital camera, I'd be happy to, but, alas, I may be the only person on the planet without one!

I can't help much on the derivation of the term "Whinger" nor the reference to NE Scotland. I have two reproductions. Shorter one is by Glenn McClain, longer one is an antique dagger rehilted by Leo Todeschini. McClain dirk has wood handle and steel fittings, Tod's horn handle and cast silver.

well, a whinger, along with dialect words like "gurning", is someone who complains a lot.

in the context of a bladed weapon, I've never heard of it being used here in scotland whatsoever, in a single museum collection or in any published works here.

infact, I would go so far as to say that if you were to ask anyone here in scotland "what is a whinger?", 99.999% of the population would say "it's someone who complains about stuff".

Here's a reproduction on Flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/soldiers/2524017...646111017/


A quick search via google brings up:

cuinnsear
a dagger, sword; from the English whinger.

http://www.ceantar.org/Dicts/MB2/mb12.html

WHINGER, Whingar, s. A sort of hanger, which seems to have been used both at meals, as a knife, and in broils.

More at the following link:


http://books.google.com/books?id=xOk-AAAAYAAJ...mp;f=false


Hunting Weapons from the Middle Ages to the Twentieth Century By Howard L. Blackmore

http://books.google.com/books?id=XnnlOcLAnBIC...mp;f=false


http://swordforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=862240


Danny

In the Incident of Rebellion painting by Morier, one of the Jacobites holds one of those behind his targe just as he would a dirk. But that's probably the only artwork where I've seen it.

Cheers,
Henrik

Noticed this "dirk" this AM. Suspiciously like a whinger!

http://contemporarymakers.blogspot.com/


Interesting. Edgefield and the Savannah River area a very strong Hieland area from early on.

Thanks!

Thom, your McClain "Whinger" looks nearly like mine! Yours is a bit more brown toned in the handle, whereas mine is pure jet black African Blackwood. Just LOVE Glenn's stuff!

A. Spanjer:

Not sure, but I would try to establish contact with the Contemporary maker's blog author. There is the group at Darien, GA that I am aware of. The Edgefield, SC and Savannah River areas are old hang outs. Grant, McGivillary, Woods, Campbell, Munroe and others. MacKay of course!

The guys on the blog spot are generally older guys, they do not try to impress you with all their knowledge. It is just fun for them. Who knows what you can find out.

Thanks!

At the risk of being censured I must say that this too good an opportunity to pass up. THese are really some WHINGER DINGERS!

Regards,

Harry