ok heres my mission i am a reenactor and i use a short seax is my favourite weapon yet i need a slightly longer blade. i have begun to study the messer techniques as the two weapons are very similar and it works very well. now what i need to know is what were the dimensions of a messer as size wise they look good for what i want and secondly and more importantly has anyone any evidence of a lang seax with a curved handle and crossgaurd like a messer?
i dont want to go into specifics right now but the curved handle is a must to keep the meeser shape even though its only a tiny curve at the hilt is nothing like a viking sword now i could use antler for this but then i cant add an x style crossgaurd which is an integral part of messer technique.
please tell me someone can help.

Size wise I don't know what the average would be for a messer or how small or big one could get and still call it a messer rather than something else like " grossmesser " or a " kriegmesser " ? Maybe " messer " would be smaller or just a short version of the name ?

But this one by Albion which I assume from the research that Peter Johnsson puts into all the Albion designs must be of a typical size ?

http://www.albion-swords.com/swords/albion/ne...soldat.htm

So, a 24" blade I think would be a good place to start comparing to the seax ?

I think some seax could be quite small and some like a large Bowie knife. Some could be much longer until they start being good sword substitutes with the so called longseax or scramasax ?

Lack of any substantial guards on most seax(s), as far as we know, could affect use and what is safe to do with a guard could be risky without a guard.

Anyway, people with more knowledge of seax(s), messers and the styles of fighting with one or the other or both will probably chime in, I hope. ;) :D

( Mostly, just Bumping the Topic but maybe not too helpful answering your question. :( )

Both saxes and messers vary quite a bit in length, so it's really difficult to be conclusive.

But I do get the impression that the messer generally portrayed in fencing manuals is a more "standardised" (if you will) weapon, which is slightly shorter than the "standard" singlehanded sword and features both a crossguard and a nagel. I have to say that I'm not really a student of messer fencing, so hopefully someone who is can chime in here.

What kind of sax are you using?

yes sorry i really should have put in more detail in my post was very rushed doing it.
currently im using a scram seax with a 14inch blade and 6inch handle.
messers i have seen vary in shape but most seem to be of a "generic" sort of size.
the seax i know went from any size up to 14inches then from 20inches upwards a strange anomaly i know.
the scrams all i know of have been found without any guards or pommels while the langseax has the same range of hilts and pommels as most weapons of the era. i have found a suitable crossgaurd for this hybrib but not a suitable pommel.
sadly i do not now handle sizes of both of these weapons and i only really know a tiny amount about the messer as its not really my area of knowledge but the manuals regarding its use are wonderful.
so really its just getting the dimensions of the messer from someone who uses them and then pommel types or possible evidence of a seax with a curved handle similar to that of a messer all i need is some historical evidence and i will be happy and can continue on my work so if anyone can help please do.

I don't think you'll find evidence of what you want... there is a lot of years between the elements you want to combine, the long seax is typical for earlier viking era, the long crossguard came during the 11th century. then there is another couple of hundred years to wait for the messer. also, if you want a curve you will have to loose the pommel and then also the crossguard.
sounds like you have to reenact two different time periods:)

Jeroen, not be be argumentative, just seeking to clarify matters. In Oakeshott's "The Archeology of Weapons" he shows an illustration of a single edged Norweagan sword hilted weapon and identifies it as a seax. Of course, this is the one book that I can't find and I have a nagging feeling that I didn't unpack it when I moved in to my new house. Do you feel that this description is inaccurate? I don't consider Oakeshott to be to be the final authority on swords so I'm not trying to defend any point of view.