i found this


http://www.kovex-ars.cz/routines/resize_image...vodoznak=1

http://www.kovex-ars.cz/routines/resize_image...vodoznak=1

http://www.kovex-ars.cz/routines/resize_image...vodoznak=1

http://www.kovex-ars.cz/routines/resize_image...vodoznak=1

http://www.kovex-ars.cz/routines/resize_image...vodoznak=1

helmet on a Czech site http://www.kovex-ars.cz/

now I know that sallet usually comes with a bevor and that rendered the longer visier unprobable, but i'm intrigued if anyway this type of sallet ever existed, historically?

thanks

I'm having a hard time seeing how deep exactly that one is due to the photo angles, but there is one sallet in the Royal Armoury in Stockholm which also goes pretty far down the face.

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I can't make out the pictures you posted very well, but if I understand what you're saying, the visor extends down so that no bevor is required, correct?

If so, there is a picture of a sallet like that in Boardman, A., The Medieval Soldier in the Wars of the Roses, Sutton Publishing, 1998, p. 35. The visor extend down well blow the wearer's chin, and is shaped to cup the chin to an extent. The caption says that the helmet is from St. Michael's Church, Caerhays (in Cornwall), and is supposed to have belonged to a man who fought for Henry Tudor at Bosworth in 1485. Unfortunately, I've never found a copy of this picture on the web.

@Kjell Magnusson - this one


http://www.kovex-ars.cz/routines/resize_image...vodoznak=1

due to the extended visor width looks even more akin to the Stockholm piece

@Hugh Knight - so this helmet's visor lower part extended and curved inward as to protect the chin, as in maybe milanese Bellows visor Sallet? http://www.ageofarmour.com/instock/bellows2.jpg

and do you happen to know from where could this book be ordered?

thanks for your replies!

A longer visor might certainly make a bevor less essential but even a deep one would leave the neck exposed !

A gorget or a maille high collared standard might in this case replace a bevor and be preferred as a bevor can be uncomfortable as far as getting air to breathe is concerned.

A short visor might just go as low as the bottom of the nose and a longer one the mouth but leave the chin exposed.

Funny how exposed and vulnerable that chin seems compared to when one is wearing an open face sallet or any other helm that leaves the face fully exposed ! Mostly, I think because one might forget about one's expose chin more than one's full face being exposed i.e. a false sense of safety by forgetting about the chin or in reverse an enhanced fear for one's exposed chin !

With a sallet with a longer/deeper visor I would think that one could choose a bevor protecting the neck and chin but stop at mouth level and get the same protection as a narrow visor and a high bevor ?

Ideally one should have a sallet and bevor optimized to work well together.

Hi

I found this and thought this would be the right place to post it:

http://www.aplaisance.co.uk/15th-Century-Armo...llet_2.JPG

As you can see it claims to be a reproduction of a sallet from Bosworth - is this the sallet you mention Hugh? and if not. have you or anyone seen this as an original?

regards

Asger

Hello everybody, recently i found out about THIS helmet located @ the Met Museum in NYC
it is of course an italian (prob Milanese piece) but what i like about it is a lack of so-called bellows on the visor.

There is a french company making a very nice repro of the piece, but i dont want to be banned so PM me if you want a link ;)

Apologies for slight threadromancy, but to come back to the op's question and consolidate relevant research here:

Boris R. wrote:

now I know that sallet usually comes with a bevor and that rendered the longer visier unprobable, but i'm intrigued if anyway this type of sallet ever existed, historically?

Here's a quick quote from Edge & Paddock's Arms & armor of the medieval knight (p. 100):

Quote:

By about 1490 two new types of sallet had appeared in Germany. One type is the so-called 'black sallet' ... The other form of sallet had a short, laminated neck guard and a bowl modelled to the head, and was equipped with a visor that covered the whole of the wearer's face, making the use of a bevor unnecessary.

There are a few sallets with long visors at the Wallace collection:

http://wallacelive.wallacecollection.org/eMus...detailView

http://wallacelive.wallacecollection.org/eMus...detailView

http://wallacelive.wallacecollection.org/eMus...detailView