I was so impressed with the thread here: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...;start=140 that I decided to start a discussion with more on the weapons and culture from this time. I feel like the armor of Vendel Period Sweden and England have been well discussed in the above link and elsewhere (though feel free to contribute more info here). But I feel like the weapons and especially the culture have been sadly unrepresented. Here's what I've found so far. Feel free to post more links if you find them.


Sword threads:
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...=valsgarde
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...=valsgarde

Were the blades pattern welded (I'm assuming an overwhelming yeah on this one)? What about fullers, were they deep or shallow, wide or narrow, there or not? How rare were swords during this period?

What sort of weapons would the average person (ie not from Vendel, Valsgarde, or Sutton Hoo) have used?


Culture thread:
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...=valsgarde

How was language changing at this time in Sweden and elsewhere? I have attached a rune list that I made based on three runestones from the Vendel Period in Sweden, but what about the language itself? Was it Old Norse?

What was religion like at this time? Was it a time of transition from the older Vanir religion to the newer Aesir one (check out John Grigsby's "Beowulf and Grendel")? Was it already in the "Viking Age" form?

What was the political situation like around Scandinavia? Swedes vs Geats who are allied to Danes? What about Norwegians? Finns? Saami? Estonians? Franks? Jutes? Slavs? Anglo Saxons? What was the nature of interaction between and within these groups?

What sort of everyday equipment has been dated to this period? Hygeine kits, clothes, tableware, belts, etc.

I think that's a healthy list of questions... :lol: I'd appreciate any input.

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Hi Myles

That's a lot of questions :eek: I'm sure Paul M will be able to answer some of your questions when he looks at this post (Paul's fourth coming book looks at many of the questions you have asked) and when I arrive home I'll attempt to give some answers and resource links for you to look at also. The Beowulf and Grendel book you mention is a good read too if not repetative in the authors attempt to reinforce his theories to the reader..I felt like I was been banged on the head with a book by a teacher trying to drive his lesson home!

cheers

Dave

Just as the runic script underwent a sort of transition from the elder futhark to the younger, the language would (as far as we can tell) have been in an intermediate form between proto-Norse (probably similar to Gothic) and Old Norse as we know it from the 8th century onwards.

I’m not very familiar with clothing from this time and place. The closest thing I can think of are the 4th century male garments excavated from Thorsberg Moor:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorsberg_moor

Tunics reaching hip to mid-tigh worn along with trousers are also depicted on Gotlandic picture stones. Caftan-like garments are featured on the Valsgärde helmet-plaques, these are sometimes interpreted as padded arming coats among reenactors, although I think it’s more likely they’re rather supposed to represent “civilian” pieces of clothing. Cloaks must have been common among both sexes judging by the abundance of fibulas and buckles unearthed from this period.

Thanks for the plug Dave!

Hi Myles,
Politically all the regions that you mention - Scandinavia, the Baltic regions, AS England and most of Germany would seem to consist of relatively small kingdoms by the late 6th century. Most of these were in competition with their neighbours and many conducted raids by land and sea to give their warriors, especially the young ones, practice in warfare and the opportunity to gain booty and self improvement. Kings/chieftains appear to have been judged by how well the harvests went, their ability to keep raiders away from their regions and their ability to intercede with the gods. Failure to sustain their 'luck' could have dire consequences for the 'king' as there would often be ambitious men who thought that they had could do a better job or who had a better claim to rule and were just waiting for an opportunity to exploit.

The super power in the region were the Merovingians, most of whom by the 6th century seem to be seeing themselves as heirs to the Roman Empire and were adopting what they saw as Roman ways. They did tend to fight each other a lot so did not manage to conquer all their neighbours.

It does seem that some young warriors, especially aristocratic ones, would seek their fortunes with a famous king for a while, before returning to their own lands. Beowulf and Hrolf Kraki may have been two such examples -- although their stories appear to be set in the 5th century.

As for religion -- there do seem to be many recurring themes in the images that occur throughout AS England, Scandinavia and the German lands and as far south as the Lombards. This may hint at a common ideology and even religious ideas. The images that I am referring to can be found on brooches, weapons and other items. Wether they saw themselves as religious is another matter - they do not appear to have had a word for the practice -- it is highly likely that they did not differentiate between the secular and the religious; that the one was a continuation of the other. There is some evidence that the king/chieftain was expected to perform the correct rituals when appropriate - this would include the sacrifice of animals and maybe humans, at times.

It does seem, too, that women did not occupy a particularly subservient role to men, that they were free to own property whether married or not and were honoured for their role in society. As far as magic goes, it seems that they were generally regarded as having more power than men.


Cheers,

Paul

Hi Myles,
I believe that Mr Johansson is correct; kings did not seem to get their titles by their own right. They would have had to have had the correct ancestry and background, or at least convince everyone they had it, but then it was up to their people to accept them. As we have seen they could also be disposed of. It is only later, with Christianity, that the notion of divine right to rule becomes accepted. Even then, English kings still had to be accepted by the Witan; that changed under The Bastard! Once God had put a king in place, the concept of monarchy changes.

The book is with the publisher and could be out late this year or early next. It is about warfare, arms and armour, and beliefs in the 6th and 7th centuries in northern Europe.

Paul

Hu Myles,

Here is a link to some information on clothing and textiles from Scandinavia during the Roman Iron Age/ Late Roman Iron Age. Unfortunetly ifor those of us limited to the English language, in Swedish. A couple of nice images though and a pattern for the Hogum tunic.http://luur.lub.lu.se/luur?func=downloadFile&fileOId=1331341

cheers

Dave

The link Dave sent me reminded me of a question I've had for a long time. What is the deal with the ring on the Snartemo sword??? :wtf: Why is it unlike any other ring sword? Any theories?

Hi Myles,
The rings on the Snartemo aren't that different from those on other ring swords in that, like all others they are decorated and non-functional (very unlikely anything was ever attached to them).
It is only their position, being under the bottom hand guard, that marks them out. It could be that the Snartemo was just an early experiment with the concept of ring swords but we are unlikely to know for sure whether it was meant to signify something different to other ring swords.
Like the double ring that appears on the Sutton Hoo shield and those on the drinking horn from Valsgarde 7 - it is still a mystery.
We still don't really know what the more conventional rings meant for certain -- they do seem to indicate the binding of two parties, possibly a lord and retainer, maybe something else. they must have been important because people take trouble to mark them out -- Vendel XIV pressbleche images for instance.

Cheers,

Paul

bump

I must say I love these Vendel threads.

Regarding language: From the year 500 and up until 7-800 the language changed quite drastically for numerous reasons, presumably due to various disasters and cultural changes. This period where proto-nordic turns into the Norse dialects referred to quite bluntly and jokingly as the period where all words got shorter. Example: The Proto-Norse name AiwarikiaR turns into the old Norse Eirikr. Some scholars think the linguistic change might have happened so rapidly that at one point the grandparents might not have spoken the same language as their grandchildren quite literally. Basically the old die early and leave younger generations to pollute the language with their slang (imagine if the same happened today!)

Measurements in the Greenlandic ice apparently recorded a thin layer of volcanic ash from this period that coincides with the collapse of agriculture in the fertile Norwegian region of Jæren during the age of migrations. I'm told there was a paper on this at the Uppsala saga conference a couple of years back.

Andreas Nordberg suggests in his "Krigarna i Odins Sal" (The Warriors in Odins Hall), which is a great book by the way, that the change in the art styles from the earlier two of Salin's classifications towards the third (Correct me if I'm wrong) suggested along with some religious change was occurring. His idea is that Germanic religion had a stronger element of animism during the stage where votive offerings (in bogs, for instance) were taking place, and gods were seen as being in closer connection with nature and the landscape prior to this change, where the religion took on a more transcendent role, perhaps after contact with other transcendent religions such as Christianity which is very explicitly so.
I for one don't really support the theory of the Vanir as being native Scandinavian gods dating form before Æsir-worship started popping up, though I do believe there are elements that in all probability have existed natively in Nordic religion since the bronze-age in the Germanic religions.

Cheers.

PS: It seems the language had more or less developed into old Norse by the time the Eggjum stone was carved, sometime between 650 and 700:
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