Hi I saw this rapier for sale in another topic
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=16945
and thought it looked pretty nice. Unfortunately someone else got it first, does anyone know what model it is?
And how historical is it? If I find another one for sale and it isn't very accurate what could be done to make it more so?
Thanx in advance
Z

Looks like the saxon cut and thrust sword with the hilt parts painted and the cross guard bent to an S.

http://www.kultofathena.com/product~item~5009...+Sword.htm

If it is the saxon sword, a guy I know has one...and the blade on his is utter trash. Even for a windlass, it's really whippy...even for a limp noodle, it's whippy.

Why not simply message the guy selling it?

Looks like the hilt of the Windlass "German Backsword" that has been discontinued mounted onto another Windlass blade, perhaps from the Saxon C&T sword. It looks like a shorter grip, too. The person is selling the backsword blade in another of his auctions... so that's my guess.

I am shocked that P. Cha says that the Saxon has a whippy blade as the two samples I've seen are extremely stiff diamond cross-sectioned blades and not whippy in any sense at all. But I'm often confused at people's classification of "whippy blades" now days. :)

[ Linked Image ]

---

 Attachment: 31.35 KB

Well it could be the one sword is a bad sword (or you got 2 better then normal sword). One of the annoying things about windlass and their QC :mad: . This sword was whippy...it drooped badly from it's own weight...and the blade wasn't even thin...nice diamond cross as you mentioned...but definately NOT stiff. Ah well, hopefully, he got a bad sword and the sample you have seen are the norms (which seems more likely as you have 2 good ones).

I visited the MRL showroom a few years back, and they were returning a Windlass rapier (I forget which one) because it's blade had not been properly tempered. It really WAS a droopy noodle! It sagged into a true arc if held horizontally to the floor. I suppose the occasional bad one gets through quality control. :confused:

I'm intimately familiar with the "Saxon Hilt Sword" Nathan examined and can second his assessment. It's a very stiff blade. We've both examined the same "German Backsword" blade and reached the same conclusion.

It might be worth repeating here what's been said elsewhere: Just because a blade bends a bit when held horizontally means absolutely nothing. We have to consider section, length, width, purpose and the characteristics of surviving examples. Saying that a sword is "whippy" is like saying a car is "low." Is low bad? Bad for an off-road vehicle but not for a supercar. Bad if you want to drive through a swamp but not if you want to drive on the Autobahn.

Here's one vote for a ban on the term "whippy." :D

No offense, but all you have to do is ask............................ its an older discontinued windlass with parts from the German backsword and a custom grip (the German Backsword has this funky not very well done black dyed rayskin). As I stated in my other classified, I bought 4 of the German Backswords and experimented on them (all of those I thought turned out well and are sold). Sean is not the only one that likes to tinker around with Windlass swords ;) As far as that rapier, the blade is a diamond cross section and is rather stiff. It too, is sold. tr

While I am not a rapier fencer, I do find these rater nice looking. Sean, the good ones have well-stiffened blades, right?

I've not held weapons like these, so I'm unsure how much "droop" is normal in -real- examples.

M.

Well what I can say about originals, is that there is a real lot of variety. Rapiers are (obviously) primarily thrust oriented weapons. As such rapiers tend to have fairly stiff blades. There are, however, many rapiers I have seen with blades that droop slightly when held out straight. The whole thing about blades being whippy is utter rubish. Swords in period were often made quite thin and droop heavly when held out straight. With a cut oriented blade "whippiness" is no issue and a thin blade cuts better than an overly thick one. The other thing that can lead to "whippiness" is a well tempered "springy" blade, and one is far better off with a springy blade than a blade that bends on impact and stays bent.
The whippiness shouldn't be an issue though in a rapier as they tend to have very thick stiff blades. The one thing that always suprises me when I pick up an original rapier though is balance, rapiers always seem to feel much heavier than they look. I think the term "whippy" should really not be used to describe swords.
Regards
Hadrian

To add to what Hadrian says, the term "rapier" is used today for many types of swords that have widely ranging characteristics. Not all swords that people called a "rapier" today are thrust-oriented at all. Many, for example, are quite stout and intended for cutting from horseback. Others try to balance the cut with the thrust. Others still, are almost exclusively intended for the thrust.

As Hadrian mentions, many authentic historical blades are often what modern sword enthusiasts would term "whippy" -- and are that way because they were designed to be that way. Modern collectors who arbitrarily condemn blades as being "whippy" are often not considering the sword's purpose. Many historical swords are incredibly flexible and were created in a manner that allowed the maker to define where in the blade's length the flex would occur.

Sword design is quite complex, but what is very simple is the concept that swords are not all intended for the same purposes, same targets, same type of fighting, etc. They are purpose-built tools and allow for a wide range of characteristics. The modern market has barely touched the surface.

My A & A 15 th century two hander definitely droops a bit when held sideways:
http://www.arms-n-armor.com/sword156.html

Now this is normal for a heavy blade that is also very long and I don't think it should cause problems in a horizontal cut if one is aware of the bend and compensates for it so that the tip of the sword hits the target where one wants and not an inch or so lower than intended ? I would also imagine that keeping the edge orientation in the cut and not twisting midway through the target would be a good idea to make a successful cut and to not put unnecessary strain on the blade.

This A & A can't be said to have an overly thin blade but at 46" long trying to make it not bend by making it thicker would probably turn the sword into a sharpened crowbar. ;) :lol:

Can some modern replicas be too whippy ? I'm sure some are, but a bit of bending is also normal for many well designed swords with really long blades.