I hope someone here can help me. I'm helping a friend re-create a Middle-eastern maille shirt, with engraved plates across the front. because of the design on the plates, he doesn't want them to overlap, but want something under them to keep them from gaping when he leans back (this is an SCA fighter). We've seen pics of maille and plate shirts with what looks like a thinner plate underneath the decorated outer plates, but we can't find anything that shows how they were connected. Can anyone help with some pictures of either just the plates from one of these types of shirts, or with some explaination of how they were linked together? Thanks!

I've just had a closer look at your question. :blush:

I have no idea how you stopped mail-and-plate shirts of this type from gaping in front. AFAIK the only thing worn under them was some kind of padded gambeson. I have always just assummed that they were very well buckled (click on the thumbnails):



The second armour, a 16th century Ottoman armour now in the Royal Armouries has 8 buckles on the front.


What puzzles me even more is that some early armours of this type have hooks instead of buckles on the front. I have absolutely no idea how these stayed closed:
http://rubens.anu.edu.au/raid4/turkey/istanbu...CN6344.JPG
http://rubens.anu.edu.au/raid4/turkey/istanbu...CN6345.JPG
http://rubens.anu.edu.au/raid4/turkey/istanbu...CN6360.JPG
http://rubens.anu.edu.au/raid4/turkey/istanbu...CN6361.JPG


One other thing, mail-and-plate armours seem to have appeared around the late 14th century. Before that, i.e. during the Crusades, Muslim warriors wore plain mail hauberks or lamellar armour.

This picture is of an early 13th century Persian dish. It shows armour on the wall of a fortress (to make the attackers think there are more warriors inside?). The armour sat the top and bottom apprear to be mail shirts, the second armour is either a padded gambeson or perhaps a kazaghand. The 3rd armour seems to be a lamellar cuirass, apparently with alternating rows of iron and leather lamellae worn over some kind of coat:



This is a Depiction of a warrior wearing lamellar armour and a helmet with a mail aventail covering the face. It's from the so-called "Baptistiere de St. Louis" and early 14th century brass basin from Syria or Egypt, now in the Louvre.

They could also be laced, i've owned two maille and plate shirts that were laced through a series of rings attached to the plates on either side of the main plates on the front.

I have seen lacing on 17th-18th century Indian mail-and-plate armour, but so far i've not seen it on earlier Turkish or Persian armour:

Hello

I've completed my mail-and-plate shirt. You can see it through this link: http://nomadok.gportal.hu/gindex.php?pg=27550495
Now I'm working on the arm and leg parts. (the helmet is made by a Hungarian smith)

Tibi

Awesome work.

M.

Nice! I like it very much, excellent work. :)

Will you be making bazubands, cuisses and greaves as well?

Edit:

Oops! Sorry, I've just noticed that you said you will be making limb defences.

I've got some of the above pics in my Massive Museum Post thread, both from Leeds and Les Invalides. Quality may be better, can't remember if I included closeups.

Now I'm making the bazubands, and I have a new question:
I make the bazubands together with a chain-covered glove, like the one on one of your links above. Is there an existing example or picture of this kind of glove with separate fingers? Like on Hong-jin Ji's armour in "My Islamic Armour indo-persian Style" topic. Because shooting my bow with a thumb-ring would be more comfortable with separate fingers.

Tibi

Do any of you know, how to fit the cuisses? Do they hang from the weapon-belt, or from a seperate belt under the torso-piece? Or from straps trough the shoulders? (I hate wearing two belts at the same time...) :)

Tibi

Hello

I made some new pictures about my armour, I have done the bazubands and the quivers:

http://nomadok.gportal.hu/gindex.php?pg=27550495

Now comes the leg-harness... and the horse armour, as I've made friendship with a strong little hucul horse.:)

T