Great pics fron Ben van Koert! They should really start you thinking again! This will be a tough call, Joe, but I have to vote for the brigandine. I like the way it looks better than the plate. It may not offer as much protection, but how many times are you going to have to worry about an acute point penetrating between the plates? Just once I'd wager if you follow up with the cheerleader thing. Here's a link to a pic of PJ in a red one: http://bjorn.foxtail.nu/images/homemade.jpg

That is why you need the fast car to go with the cheerleader! ;)

Ben,

Thanks for the reply, and double thanks for the great photos.

On the topic of being worn, there would be some wearing, but I'm also being honest with myself (regarding display as a focus) because there is not much medieval living history movement here. The is a fair bit that is post colonial (Civil War especially). A few small "other" groups here and there. One or two small events (genrally shared with other periods). For the most part people with kit are going to wear it at Halloween, at ren faire or at a comic/game con (where you're as apt to meet a Kligon as a man at arms) or as part of an SCA group (which has some different requirements).

In fairness to both vendors mentioned by me in this thread, neither will be able to fit me in person. Based on very brief email exchanges, both want quite a few measurements with whatever I plan on wearing under the stuff, if I decide buy something (preferrably done by someone familiar with fitting armour or at least a tailor).

Nothing is being represented as "off the rack".

Either option will require a reasonable wait in queue.

Random thought: If I could ever afford the cheerleader and fast car, I could probably do the brigandine and the plate. :D

How about a compromise?

http://www.bestarmour.com/details/zbroje71.html

Kind of interesting looking.

How about this for a compromise then?
[ Linked Image ]

[ Linked Image ]

Brigandine + plackart = ultraspiff! :D

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I say narrow the choice down by "who" you plan to be. 15th century knight... plate Well "armed" 15th century soldier, I'd go with the brig. Just below the level of a non noble man at arms, your choice. Man at arms, plate.

I don't agree, there were just as many variations in quality with brigandines as with breastplates and cuirasses. Some were suited for footsoldiers and others were more splendid and refined for the elite. For example, I don't believe a brigandine with silk velvet cover and gilded nails would be made for a common foot soldier. Maybe a retainer of a powerful lord would wear a brigandine like that, but there are also accounts of men of power wearing a light brigandine under their clothing while traveling through a hostile area, in the sense of a modern bullet-proof vest.

Joe Fults wrote:

On the topic of being worn, there would be some wearing, but I'm also being honest with myself (regarding display as a focus) because there is not much medieval living history movement here. The is a fair bit that is post colonial (Civil War especially). A few small "other" groups here and there. One or two small events (genrally shared with other periods). For the most part people with kit are going to wear it at Halloween, at ren faire or at a comic/game con (where you're as apt to meet a Klingon as a man at arms) or as part of an SCA group (which has some different requirements).

If there are no groups to join, why don't you lead by example, and do it like it should be done? Eventually you could form your own group. :)

Hi Ben is this an interpretive recreation or where ist the Brigandine Plackart thing based on? From what I read the setup was more covered breastplate with plackart.

To go along with what Ben has said regarding knightly or lordly use of brigs. It seems not to be the standard but happens enough that I'd not think it unusual to see a knight in a brig in combat. I think from the large amount of primary source reading and artwork I have seen it is still secondary use for war but it happens nonetheless. This brings up some questions. Why did some knights select them for warfare? I cannot say I know for sure. Likely personal preference. Many brigs are cheap but you can get some very nice ones made up. Just like most plate armour. Of course this is irrelevant as it does not seem you want to use either.

That said going back to my first post. If you want something symbolic of knighthood or chivalry etc. I'd go with the plate. When Talbot is killed at Castillion he was in a brig. Supposedly it was because he said he'd never array/arm/or something against the French and this was a viable loophole for a knight/noble.

Ben,

That is an amazing harness!

Felix,

I have heard that as well but not sure how much I buy into it. I have found brigandined shoulders in inventories and such and makes me hesitant to think anyone knows for sure... To me this theme seems like something that needs more research.

RPM

Yes, those are the type of pictures I was thinking about.

For the idea about the knight in Brigandine, how about the Lentner in the late 14th cent. something that is often referred to as a Corrazina. Or for instance the covered breastplate with fauld from Munich. When we think of such pieces covered under some kind of Jupon, even when this outer shell doesn´t have arms. Is there evidence what they were actually wearing under it. Because even for solid breastplates there are not to many extant examples. Don´t know about inventory lists though.

Although it looks more 15th cent like in this topic.

I have to agree with Randall, by the way. If you want to go for the archetype of a knight, I'd go for full plate too, as it's more iconic than a brigandine. However, if you want something more different, and something you are able to wear before the rest of your rig is finished a brigandine is more versatile.

Speaking about brigandine shoulders, they give a very nice effect to your armour, should you incorporate them. I used a pair in my previous setup, and they really stand out on a battlefield. This is how it looks:


Felix: I'm not enough into the 14th century to give an answer to those questions, unfortunately. My focus is mid to late 15th C. I hope someone else can tell.

For those Gents who have Brigs how easy are they to get on and off? Have you also tried wearing breastplates? If so how do they compare?

I'm speculating that brigs would be easier to get off compared to a breastplate. Which would be great for having a rest out of range of archers/crossbowmen or for removing armour that has been pierced by an arrow or quarrel.

Thanks for all the advice, and most especially, all the photos. Some really great ones in the thread now.

Ben,

Do you have the plates in your brigandine tinned, painted or left un-treated? Is it a White Rose creation or did it come from another maker? Also, is there a liner in it?

Finally, as an active brigandine owner/user, anything that you would do different the next time you buy one?

Thanks in advance!

14th century breastplates become fairly common in upper nobility in 1350s. There after they become more common decade by decade and filter down to the lower classes. By the 1370s it was not uncommon for nobles and knights to own several breastplates to equip their men as well. The partial inventory of the Earl of March's goods in London at this time show him having almost the same number of COPs as he had breastplates, seemingly one BP specifically for himself the rest for his men. He also had more or less the makings of several full suits to go with these COPs and Breastplates. One problem we face with text evidence is lack of detail. We have no idea for sure how an object looks. Often breastplate is all that is given so could be covered or uncovered and we'd never know. That said corazza, meaning breastplate and corazzina, meaning little breastplate does make a fairly useful and period difference between the two items but this is more or less an italian practice from what I have seen and to be honest I have not gotten a decent chance to look deeply into Italian primary sources.... just as I find time.

Joe,

Period Brig plates often are tinned.

RPM

Have a look at this link. It is my favorite brigandine so far. I was actually disappointed when I found it as I was in the process of designing one that is much the same as this one thinking it was new and original. I think it fills the gap between "traditional" brigandine and full plate quite nicely.


http://www.truehearth.com/mod_churburg_bp.jpeg