Posts: 1,563 Location: Upstate NY
Fri 04 Jun, 2004 6:48 pm
New period armour acquisitions
Posts: 1,563 Location: Upstate NY
Fri 04 Jun, 2004 6:52 pm
More Cuisse shots
Posts: 4,194 Location: Northern VA,USA
Fri 04 Jun, 2004 6:57 pm
Very nice looking stuff. I'm in the middle of commissioning a 15th century gothic harness with fluting, so the cuisse is of particular interest to me. Thanks for the pics!
Posts: 79 Location: Davis, California
Fri 04 Jun, 2004 7:40 pm
Lovely, Allan! Thanks for sharing those! Those gauntlets in particular look to be in supprisingly good condition - the little I see of the leather looks fairly well preserved?
Posts: 1,563 Location: Upstate NY
Fri 04 Jun, 2004 9:13 pm
David, the finger leathers are exceedingly brittle! We're as surprised as you are at the condition. They were "Professionally
Cleaned" before we got them but an application of BreakFree got several lames that were rust locked to free up . The rivets at the cuff that would have held the glove in place have been replaced at some time probably for display purposes
as they do not exhibit the same rust pitting as the rivets in the rest of the construction. For as dry as the leather is for the fingers several of them still exhibit latteral movement ( they swing from side to side at the point where they're attached to the knuckles ) .
Bill, the strength imparted by the ridge geometry is amazing ! You can squeeze the sides in a full two inches each (you're now exerting about maximum force ) and it returns to shape every time ( sacrilege I know, but we've been doing this since we got it ) and its made from 24 gauge steel, tops ! The strength imparted by the geometry of the ridging is truly impressive !
TOYS!!
Posts: 500 Location: Austin, TX
Fri 04 Jun, 2004 10:40 pm
Great pix! Thanks for sharing them. I'm surprised that the cuisse is 24 ga, but I guess we're conditioned to expect thicker metal (14-18g) due to the reproduction/re-enactment market. I really like the repousse (?) on the gauntlet cuffs.
Brian M
Posts: 6 Location: Rochester
Sat 05 Jun, 2004 5:13 am
Brian because of the different use armour is put to today ( much heavier, fight practice every Tuesday night and a weekend long event every other weekend... that sort of thing ) modern armour is built in thicker gauges than period work . I was very
suprised at how thin the construct of period peices was myself years back when I first went to The Tower Armouries and
got to look at it close up . The gauntlets are etched in a floral spray pattern with a bird ( an eagle I think ) at the apex of each cuff . Glad you dug the pics . Oh this is Allan. Jason was logged on and happened to see your post so I just started typing .
Posts: 6 Location: Rochester
Sat 05 Jun, 2004 5:13 am
Brian because of the different use armour is put to today ( much heavier, fight practice every Tuesday night and a weekend long event every other weekend... that sort of thing ) modern armour is built in thicker gauges than period work . I was very
suprised at how thin the construct of period peices was myself years back when I first went to The Tower Armouries and
got to look at it close up . The gauntlets are etched in a floral spray pattern with a bird ( an eagle I think ) at the apex of each cuff . Glad you dug the pics . Oh this is Allan. Jason was logged on and happened to see your post so I just started typing .
Posts: 1,563 Location: Upstate NY
Sat 05 Jun, 2004 6:06 am
Oh Brian repousse is basically the same thing as embossing . Small chisels and punches are used to raise shapes on the outside surface of metal by working from the inside surface . Etching is of course using an acid to remove metal in
specific areas to leave a pattern .
Posts: 4,194 Location: Northern VA,USA
Sat 05 Jun, 2004 6:44 am
| Allan Senefelder wrote: |
Bill, the strength imparted by the ridge geometry is amazing ! You can squeeze the sides in a full two inches each (you're now exerting about maximum force ) and it returns to shape every time ( sacrilege I know, but we've been doing this since we got it ) and its made from 24 gauge steel, tops ! The strength imparted by the geometry of the ridging is truly impressive ! |
That's really awesome. Most armor these days is so much heavier than historical counterparts, much like the sword market not too long ago. Hopefully with the broadening study of period armor this will begin to level out. Many groups (ren fairre troupes being some of the most famous) get suited up in their all 14-12 gauge armor and start whacking each other with their 10 lbs + longswords, which will of course start to dent up the armor. Many other groups aren't using steel, but an example would be SCA combat, where the intent is to hit the armor, and hit it hard, with a rattan stick. While I'm not dismissing that type of recreation, it isn't historically correct fighting, where you tried to hit someplace the armor isn't. This is why the reproduction armor world has such hefty gauges, because the market demands it.
Posts: 493
Sat 05 Jun, 2004 8:19 am
| Bill Grandy wrote: |
| Most armor these days is so much heavier than historical counterparts, much like the sword market not too long ago. |
I was interested to read the page at Valentine Armouries about the weight of historical pieces versus reproduction items. http://www.varmouries.com/vweights.html
This would seem to explain the popularity of fluted armor in the late 15th and 16th Centuries, since it must have been possible to trim a lot of weight off the whole kit by ridging the surfaces.
Posts: 500 Location: Austin, TX
Sat 05 Jun, 2004 9:03 am
I wonder if those gauntlets were from a "Black&White" suit originally?
Brian m
Posts: 1,191 Location: Kingston, Washington
Sat 05 Jun, 2004 10:11 am
Sweet Pieces!
Allan;
Sweet Pieces you have there! VERY nice stuff! Thanks for not only posting the pictures, but the little comments about how the ribbing helps with the strength... something that we all may know on one level, but it's really, really nice to see original stuff doing just what it is "supposed to" do!
Sure looks like those Gauntlets are from a high-quality suit, too. You really scored with all of your new loot, now for you to make repro's of it! Nice Reiter-style Gauntlets coming up to the elbows, to almost reach the pauldrons, so you don't need the vambraces, rerebraces and couters, black-and-white paint job, etc... :D
Thanks again for sharing!
Gordon
Posts: 1,563 Location: Upstate NY
Sat 05 Jun, 2004 11:35 am
Bridal gauntlets AAHHHHLLLLL....( Homer Simpson drooling noise ) . Gordon I so want to make those .
Brian , black and white armours are created by either leaving the plates black from the forge and
polishing the recessed
borders and any raised repoussed points or by painting the armour black ( the painted examples i've seen used a very
thick almost stove pipe type oil paint ) and polishing the "white " areas . The darkened color of the etch on the gauntlets
is the area that was slightly eaten away by the acid used so that the design stands out in relief vs etching the design into the metal . This style of etch was very popular and quite common on 16th century armour .
Posts: 1,191 Location: Kingston, Washington
Sat 05 Jun, 2004 12:07 pm
Bridle Gauntlets
Allan;
Well, since you seem to have some nice examples of gauntlets from the period I favor right in front of you, perhaps we should talk...
Gads, but what the heck. As they say, another day older, and deeper in debt, but gotta have more toys! Or at least complete the toy sets on hand! :D
Gordon
Posts: 1,563 Location: Upstate NY
Sat 05 Jun, 2004 3:16 pm
Gordon as soon as we get stocked up for faire and wade through the summer season there I think I will have to slot those
into the R&D schedual . I've wanted to do them for a long time but wasn't sure there was a market for them as we've primarily encountered folks with a medieval bent doing the renfaire thing .
Bill your comments regarding modern armour thickness were right on .
Posts: 1,191 Location: Kingston, Washington
Sat 05 Jun, 2004 3:41 pm
Gauntlets
Allan;
Sounds great! I look forward to seeing them listed!
Medieval Armour at Renfaires... I guess folks are just contrary. :wtf:
Gordon
Posts: 6 Location: Rochester
Sat 12 Jun, 2004 5:17 am
We just bought a mid-16th century tasset - see the pics
Posts: 6 Location: Rochester
Sat 12 Jun, 2004 5:22 am
additional photos of the 16th century tasset
Posts: 1,563 Location: Upstate NY
Fri 18 Jun, 2004 7:42 pm
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