Hello everyone,

First, let me say that I have very little knowledge of plate. Most of my experience is with maille as I am more into the 11th-14th. C. This post is really for me, and maybe others to learn a bit.

So how common or existent was non-custom plate defenses? I am thinking of 14th. c. moving into the 1500's.

I have a, very likely, misconception that this type of more homologous chest and back plate armor may have become more common in the 17th.-18.th. C.- the era of increased shot.

What do folks think? If this post entirely to broad- feel free to focus it at your leisure.

Thanks,
Jeremy

One article that I thought might help you was done by Craig Johnson back in '99. Now I am sure that his research has gone further than what he wrote here, but his findings and research are interesting.

http://www.oakeshott.org/metal.html

Two parts for you.

Quote:

This ability created some very rich armorers and also allowed for a tremendous amount of production. In preparation for the Battle of Maclodio, 1427, Milan was able to supply 4000 armors for cavalry and 2000 for infantry within just a few days.

This seems to indicate that some of this would have been made prior to the order and kept in shop, therefore, without being fitted for any specific person, this could be classed as munition grade.

Quote:

Undecorated Garniture £12.6 (a notable exception to the purchasing of raw steel to work is in Milan were the plate makers seem to have prefabbed certain elements at the finery stage and sent the armorers rough shaped elements. In fact, in one case a doctor in Milan was brought to court by the armorers on charges of buying these prefab elements, cleaning them up a bit, and undercutting their prices with inferior product. The Merchants who sat on the council found the doctor not guilty as it was good for business.)15 The vast majority of armor produced throughout the period of armor making would have to have been for "off the rack" purchase. Those who ordered a fitted suit would pay a premium.

All this help?

Thanks Collin,

This does indeed help. I have this article but had forgotten much of it's contents. Thanks for doing the leg work.

More thoughts are welcome!

Jeremy

I don't know about the 14th and 15th centuries but they were abundant in Central Europe in the 16th. Most plate seems to have so much intrinsic overlap to fit a variety of personal dimensions. Now I have no personal experience with plate but it looks to me like as if it would be much easier to adjust ones arming garments to fit the plate than vice-versa especially for 15th cent. styles.

For sure. Off the rack armour was fairly common likely for much of the medieval period but at least in the 14th and 15th for armour in general. Looking into trade records the amounts of armour going to general sale is fairly common. As most nobles had custom freedoms in England on such things port and brokage books will say armour for Lord Talbot etc if it is actually fitted to avoid the tolls and customs (Soton brokage and portage books, London has them as well) . Most say simply they are for general sale and are taxed. Some even say they are for markets.

Now the question is how much work was done locally to get them to fit? There is very slight notice of this practice so conclusively hard to say. Clearly as was in the article above 4,000 suits being sold in bulk like that are off the rack so to speak. Edward II buys loads of armour off the rack, bascinets, gaunts, COPs. At one point before one of his Scot campaigns he buys 500 of each in London for a group that has not yet been arrayed. Clearly not tailored armour. (London Letter Books)

RPM

Sirs-Since it was possible to buy second-hand armour,and to rent armour, I think alot of plate was fitted by altering the straps and increasing or decreasing the padding under it.Also if you look at illustrations of the period,1400s on ( have a number from Barbara Tuchman's "A Distant Mirror" done in the early 1400's to illustrate Froissart's "Chronicles") the general light armed already wore sallet,gorget,back and breast only. The arm and leg pieces were not worn, except by the wealthy.,and these were the pieces most in need of hand fitting, I would think. Also, the mail gussets and skirts worn to protect armpits and groin could have links added or removed by any competent snith using pre-tempered links.